When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…
The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
111–120 of 353 posts
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#112krrkrkrkKRKRkRKRkrkr.
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#113Our text editor is a tool, there’s no fundamental value in a tool vs the other, they do not possess life. They’re tools like a fork is a tool. I wonder what of the things you use in the day to day you analyze so deeply, your microwave ? The forks you buy? Might be an interesting exercise of thought but for something that I use to make money, I will use the best tool available for the job, thank you very much.
I could have saved a few dollars by getting those really cheap forks you see that are obviously just stamped out of sheets of steel, but cheapness wasn't one of my values. Instead I got forks that have never bent, or rusted, or tarnished, or shown any signs of wear in almost a decade of use. Plus they feel nice in the hand, they look good, and they don't have flowers or birds carved into the handle or any of that nonsense. It was also a nice bonus that I found them at a Target a mile from where I live. I hate shopping, so that satisfied a tertiary value by not making me visit a lot of stores.
It's the same with editors. Most people value price above all else, so there's no business in selling editors any more. Back in the day I used a rather nice commercial editor called VEdit. My Dad must have bought it, because at that age I never would have. It had a ton of features, and came with an inch-thick printed manual. I don't recall how extensible or introspectable it was (I was 12 at the time, and didn't care about such things), so probably it wouldn't satisfy my values today. On the other hand, it satisfied (or cultivated) values that I didn't even know at the time that I had. When I discovered VEdit's hex-editor, I started using it on everything. I explored how file names were stored in directory entries. I hex-edited some games to change their messages. I learned quite a lot from those sorts of things, so I'd say that it was money well spent.
But you're correct in saying that editors are not alive, and cannot themselves have values. However, the people who develop the editor certainly do have values, and those values affect the choices they make when they write code. If those values are similar to your own values, then the developers of the editor will make similar choices to the ones you would have made if you had been developing the editor. Thus, the editor will fit you well.
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#114When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…
To me, it depends on the language. An IDE helps a lot with verbose languages that have somewhat complicated environments or runtimes. Like Java. I can fly with VIM and Perl though.
Like most open source things, the quality of support maps closely to the density of users who are trying to accomplish something similar. This is why Emacs has fantastic support for languages like JS and Ruby, and massively subpar support for Java and C#.
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#115I don’t find VS Code to be a good text editor in the sense of a tool to wrangle text: the keyboard shortcuts are rather arbitrary and don’t seem to be logically organised, and it seems not to have learnt much from eg modern text editors like Sublime Text (even Sublime compatibility isn’t as good as the real thing). That said, for writing code, it’s fine because most of the time I’m thinking and typing in short runs o…
Shortcuts in VS Code are a setting. Just load which shortcut-setup you prefer. That's pretty normal with good dev-tools nowadays, because everyone has different preferences and habits.
There are quite a few shortcuts that cannot be implemented due to missing capabilities in VS Code. For example -- this list from an author of a VS Code plugin that emulates Sublime[1].
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they don't. You're an exception. Most people choose based on practicality or price. Free = even better. I find that one of the few places where people act based on their values is raising children. And even there, a lot of people skip raising their children completely. For everything else: convenience, price, maybe risk.
And tech people tend to be much more willing to spend time&effort "optimizing" their choices to fit their values than the average population. At least for "small to medium" choices - not sure about raising children.
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#117I'm curious if the userbase of these have tried a Jetbrains IDE (PyCharm, CLion, IntelliJ etc). I've found the Jetbrains IDEs understand the language more thoroughly - this means better code navigation, error-catching, and refactoring. I've also found the implicit project-first focus (as opposed to file-first) to be more practical for most things I work on.
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#118I use vim frequently. But I think that people should realize and be able to admit that vim and emacs are outdated. They can still be useful especially for people like me who have a sunk cost in learning them. But the honest evaluation is outdated. For example, the core modal interface of vim is related to historical limitations at the time it was created. http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm..…
Do you mind elaborating on what you're doing with notebooks?
Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#119Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla
#120I really like Sublime - fast and clean. Currently I use both sublime and emacs depending on what I’m doing.
I wish I discovered emacs 20 years ago! How many years I wasted without it :(