Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

murilopereira.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 353 posts

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#101

Post by ohthehugemanate »

irrational wrote: post #27
elagost wrote: post #9

This is really well written and researched but confuses me. Do most people not do this - make choices based on values (and constantly re-evaluate those choices in the face of new information)? When I decide to use software, move to a new location, purchase cereal at the grocery store, buy music, and a variety of other daily activities, these are choices I make based on my values. Many times I end up picking something…

I don’t have any values that would affect the cereal I buy. I’m not even sure what values would come into play. I don’t buy cereal that isn’t magically delicious? I just buy whatever is cheapest. Is not having much money a value? Other than Richard Stallman, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone talk about how their personal values determine what software they will use. If I can afford it (free is better!) and it does…

Yes, lowest cost is a value. But there are probably 5 or 6 cereals at the lowest price point at your local grocery store. Which one do you pick, and why? Whatever the answer is, reveals your values. (Even "the one at eye level" reveals the value of minimum energy expenditure)

> If I can afford it (free is better!) and it does the job, I use it.

OK so one value is clear. But there are literally tens of software options that fit into those requirements. So why do you pick gdocs over libreoffice, or your workplace MS365 subscription?

Every choice you make is determined by your values, whether you're conscious of it or not. Very often, people think they hold one set of values (eg "i'm a vegetarian because I value animal life") but that is belied by their actions (eg wearing leather soled shoes). You can guess which one is a better indicator of their real values.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#102

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

Compared to many I am a relatively new emacs user, back when I began programming I let myself get intimidated by the scary stories told about Emacs and Vim configuration. Turns out a huge emacs configuration is not needed, in fact I notice my emacs config actually started to become smaller over the recent times. It's hard to express how much I value emacs now and the only regret I have is that I did not give it a chance earlier when I still exclusively used "modern" editors and IDEs.

Another aspect I see rarely mentioned is the emacs evil[1], it basicelly provides a full vi layer, it's much more than your average "vi keybindings" plugin. Emacs vs Vim? Not a question I have to give any thought when I can use both and switch between them without much effort.

[1]: https://github.com/emacs-evil/evil

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#104

Post by city41 »

Macha wrote: post #34

On vim vs neovim: My deep vim usage hasn't really changed much since it stopped being my primary editor usage 5 years ago, so this isn't the world's most informed opinion, but I've not noticed a drastic difference between vim and neovim. The one difference I've noticed and literally the only reason I've moved to neovim is that it uses XDG dirs by default and thereby clutters my home directory less. Otherwise, the two…

I essentially treat them as the same thing and will switch back and forth as one gets a regression or the other fixes an old regression. My config works perfectly in both and frankly I can't tell the difference 99.999% of the time.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#105

Post by omaranto »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #102
submeta wrote: post #30

When you finally learn to master and config Emacs, you run circles around all other editors. Emacs is so much more than just an editor. But even if you only use it for coding: Magit is the best git client I have used in years (coming from PyCharm + Git Tower App, which is nice), then there‘s Ztree-Diff (excellent folder diff tool; previously using Kaleidoscope app), then Eshell for interacting with the server from wi…

Compared to many I am a relatively new emacs user, back when I began programming I let myself get intimidated by the scary stories told about Emacs and Vim configuration. Turns out a huge emacs configuration is not needed, in fact I notice my emacs config actually started to become smaller over the recent times. It's hard to express how much I value emacs now and the only regret I have is that I did not give it a cha…

Evil is rarely mentioned? I guess we hang out in different parts of the internet.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#106

Post by atarian »

pedrocr wrote: post #14

Are powerful editors really that much of a force multiplier? My career path has pulled me from a CS degree into loosely related fields so I mostly only code as a hobby. I end up using basic editors (e.g., gedit) and reaching for grep/sed/etc when I need something fancy. Is having that power in the editor versus the command line that much of an advantage?

John Carmack admitted a while back that he's not much of a power user when it comes to text editors.

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1302651878065475584

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#107

Post by dmortin »

I use Emacs, but I like the polish of VSCode too.

Emacs is a portable programming platform and once you learn it, it's so easy to program that it's trivial to create mini applications with a text/keyboard interface to get things done or quickly automate recurring tasks. (Those who can create VScode plugins and don't know emacs, have no idea how convoluted creating a vscode plugin is, and how trivial it is in emacs).

Even if I happen to do something via VSCode, I still use Emacs for Org, Magit, etc. and also as the above mentioned programming platform, because I found these mini apps with key/text interface help a lot with everyday tasks.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#108

Post by simias »

oefrha wrote: post #5

> It also shines in areas where Emacs doesn’t: if you’re a programmer working on typical contemporary projects, mostly just wanting to get stuff done, things usually… just work. You install VSCode, open a source code file, get asked to install the extension for that particular language, and that’s it. You get smart completion, static analysis, linting, advanced debugging, refactoring tools, deep integration with git…

>The great thing about Emacs is that everything is a buffer[...]

It frustrates me endlessly that this one simple, almost self-evident piece of Emacs wisdom failed to gain traction almost everywhere else. Even the venerable Vim drops the ball hard here, with the various "widgets" it uses in its interface which have slightly different semantics and behaviours.

Every time I get a shitty modal with some text I can't copy paste, every time I have a crappy edit box lacking basic editing capabilities, every time I get some large text dump I can't search through with normal editing commands, every single time that happens I pray to the altar of RMS for him to smite the heathens and bring us to the age of enlightenment.

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#109

Post by eeZah7Ux »

elagost wrote: post #9

This is really well written and researched but confuses me. Do most people not do this - make choices based on values (and constantly re-evaluate those choices in the face of new information)? When I decide to use software, move to a new location, purchase cereal at the grocery store, buy music, and a variety of other daily activities, these are choices I make based on my values. Many times I end up picking something…

Amazing how ethics (especially around software freedom) are shunned on "hacker" news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic

[edit: let's the downvote fest begin...]

Re: The values of Emacs, the Neovim revolution, and the VSCode gorilla

#110

Post by erostrate »

yen223 wrote: post #85
erostrate wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And tech people tend to be much more willing to spend time&effort "optimizing" their choices to fit their values than the average population. At least for "small to medium" choices - not sure about raising children.

https://xkcd.com/610/

I don't follow? I wasn't implying that this is a good thing, or that it makes tech people special, and certainly not that it makes them superior.

Edit: here's an xkcd more relevant to what I meant: https://xkcd.com/309/

Post reply on HN