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EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

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Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#11

Post by permille42 »

_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

You don't need Facebook to communicate your ideas to others.

You don't need AWS either. AWS is actually a backwards development of technology in my opinion because it is anti-open source.

It is quite straightforward to lease your own server and/or build your own and colo. You can even easily setup containers on such, or a cluster of them if you desire.

You also don't need a domain name to host a site. Plain IP addresses work fine in many situations. There are plenty of "shady" countries who will let you register DNS and do whatever you want with it.

Just look at the underground pirate community. None of this weak censorship by silencing Facebook posts is stopping them. Piracy will continue to the end of time, because if you have a bit of tech skill there is very little that can silence a person on the modern internet.

And yes, p2p ( without internet ) file sharing is alive and well. Those in draconian environments engage in it. Swapping 12tb drives is quite effective in sharing data.

Own microchips? Yeah we are heading that way. Hence the popularity of Risc-V and various "open hardware". Typically it is sufficient to use your own software stack on existing hardware though.

SV execs can't do shit about public opinion or the underground community.

The free exchange of information is alive and well. It just doesn't live on Facebook or Parler or any of that crap.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#12

Post by Gibbon1 »

secfirstmd wrote: post #2

Maybe part of the issue is that now is the first time many people in the US actually notice this. When in reality Facebook and similar have been censoring voices for many years. For example Palestinian ones https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/fb-stop-censoring-palestine/

Can also point out censoring Kurd's and Hezbollah. While at the same time allowing ISIS to use their platforms for recruitment.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#13

Post by im3w1l »

Barrin92 wrote: post #7
cheese_van wrote: post #3

In the context of the various US objections to China, de-platforming narrows one distinction between the Chinese authoritarian treatment of speech and the US's. While all nation-states are hypocritical to a degree, it certainly allows the Chinese to underline this hypocrisy, while providing cover and justification for their own lack of internet speech freedoms. Not a happy trend for free speech absolutists anywhere.

I don't think there's anything that distinguishes the US more from China than a private platform being able to deplatform the president, rather than be bullied by him. There is no hypocrisy here. The only relevant rights in the US are the rights of twitter to not be compelled to publish someone's speech, and freedom of association. That unlike in China, Trump is subject to the TOS of Twitter is as American and as fre…

While he has the chair for a few more days, he is for most intents and purposes a disgraced former leader. China would certainly deplatform someone like that.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#14

Post by Mountain_Skies »

permille42 wrote: post #11
_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

You don't need Facebook to communicate your ideas to others. You don't need AWS either. AWS is actually a backwards development of technology in my opinion because it is anti-open source. It is quite straightforward to lease your own server and/or build your own and colo. You can even easily setup containers on such, or a cluster of them if you desire. You also don't need a domain name to host a site. Plain IP addres…

>You don't need Facebook to communicate your ideas to others.

Interesting, that is the same point conservative judge Robert Bork used to make, and while not the only reason why he was rejected for the Supreme Court, it was certainly a factor. Weird how someone like Bork, who used to be considered on the far fringe of conservativism, is now part of mainstream liberal orthodoxy.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#15

Post by Mountain_Skies »

Curious how Doctorow justifies the practice of disemvoweling, a passive aggressive form of censorship that boing boing used to silence people they didn't agree with but who weren't violating the terms of service of the site. Also wonder how all of this fits in the depersoning of Violet Blue from boing boing.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#16

Post by watwut »

_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

> Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice.

That is because AWS takedown of Parler is the one that is best argued. Largely due to Amazon having to respond to Parler suing them, but result is pretty convincing document.

So you kinda now have to make argument for why Amazon should be forced to continue to host Parler despite all that.

> Go make your own AWS"

AWS has 30% of market and Oracle have same API. There are options beside do own. Moreover, Parler have Mercers money funding, they are not poor nobodied without resources and backing.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#17

Post by inglor_cz »

permille42 wrote: post #11
_qcti wrote: post #8

"Go make your own Facebook" Then AWS takes down Parlor. And so many on Hacker News rejoice. "Go make your own AWS" Where does that end? Go make your own domain registrar? Go make your own ICANN? Go make your own ISP? Go make your own internet? Go make your own microchips? If some virtue signaling Silicon Valley execs want to impress their friends, you're done. Oligarchy. Has nothing to do with capitalism or democracy…

You don't need Facebook to communicate your ideas to others. You don't need AWS either. AWS is actually a backwards development of technology in my opinion because it is anti-open source. It is quite straightforward to lease your own server and/or build your own and colo. You can even easily setup containers on such, or a cluster of them if you desire. You also don't need a domain name to host a site. Plain IP addres…

You do not need even electricity. People lived without power for thousands of generations and some still live like that.

It still would not be fine if there was a class of outcasts defined by execs of power distribution companies on whim.

The "you do not need" standard is a tricky one. Modern civilization is built around a lot of network-like structures. Getting kicked off them is a kind of punishment. We generally have some mechanisms that try to prevent capriciousness in punishment.

Would you rather do a year in San Quentin or be completely deplatformed by Big Tech forever? I would probably choose the former. Being prevented, for example, to send any e-mail to anyone with Gmail.com address is a serious problem.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#18

Post by redis_mlc »

quantified wrote: post #6

Let’s note that while a bar has to allow the public entry, if your speech or actions inside the bar starts a fight, they can bounce you. No written terms of service needed. Just threatening the bartender might be enough. People might be deplatformed, but they can still write, publish anywhere that will accept their writing, call people on the phone... do anything they could do in the year 1999, 207 years after the Co…

> Trumbo breached someone’s norms and was deplatformed.

Actually he didn't. If you have a quote proving that, please post it.

The narrative constructed by the left is that:

- That Trump made racist statements. He didn't.

- That there was "voter fraud" (there always is), but not "widespread voter fraud" (which there was)

- That there was a Republican "insurrection." Actually BLM/antifa activists were first into the Capitol.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#19

Post by permille42 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #17
permille42 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need Facebook to communicate your ideas to others. You don't need AWS either. AWS is actually a backwards development of technology in my opinion because it is anti-open source. It is quite straightforward to lease your own server and/or build your own and colo. You can even easily setup containers on such, or a cluster of them if you desire. You also don't need a domain name to host a site. Plain IP addres…

You do not need even electricity. People lived without power for thousands of generations and some still live like that. It still would not be fine if there was a class of outcasts defined by execs of power distribution companies on whim. The "you do not need" standard is a tricky one. Modern civilization is built around a lot of network-like structures. Getting kicked off them is a kind of punishment. We generally h…

I would be delighted to be banned from all technology for eternity. I would wear the ban like a badge of honor and devote my life to the advancement of something more noble such as mathematics.

Re: EFF, Cory Doctorow warn about the dangers of de-platforming and censorship

#20

Post by inglor_cz »

permille42 wrote: post #19
inglor_cz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need even electricity. People lived without power for thousands of generations and some still live like that. It still would not be fine if there was a class of outcasts defined by execs of power distribution companies on whim. The "you do not need" standard is a tricky one. Modern civilization is built around a lot of network-like structures. Getting kicked off them is a kind of punishment. We generally h…

I would be delighted to be banned from all technology for eternity. I would wear the ban like a badge of honor and devote my life to the advancement of something more noble such as mathematics.

If you are the kind of talent that can make significant contributions alone, that is a viable (and enviable) way of life.

But if you need to co-operate, that is really hard to do without tech. I used to do some work in algebra 20 years ago and mathematicians were one of the first branches to network extensively. It happens all too often that the other person who is interested and knowledgeable about the same arcane problem lives several time zones away.

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