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English as She Is Spoke

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Re: English as She Is Spoke

#131

Post by lqet »

goodcanadian wrote: post #105
lqet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "I go first" a correct translation? If so, why is it used? As an excuse that you have to leave earlier than the person you have been with? Or to avoid that uncomfortable situation where both parties aren't sure if it is time to leave, and are just standing around awkwardly?

When you see these things in foreign languages, it may seem odd. However, if you look at the origins of words and phrases in English, it is also full of odd expressions. It is just that you are used to them. Take "welcome."[1] Well come. You've arrived well. You make a good entrance? Not a ridiculous thing to say when someone arrives. What about in response to "Thank you?" You are welcome.[2] Huh? What does that mean…

The origin of "welcome" seems to be "will come", not "well come". This is clear from the German version "Willkommen", which is closer to the original proto-germanic "wiljakumo" and is directly related to the rather dated German expression "Will [er/sie] kommen!" ("Let him/her in, or "Will he/she come [in]!"), or even to English "will ya come!". The connection of "will" and "come" signals the desire to receive the guest.

The french "bienvenue" seems to be a too-literal translation from wiljakumo [0]. A similar construction is missing in Latin.

[0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bienvenue#Etymology

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#132

Post by Igelau »

lqet wrote: post #90
hashmush wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Chinese guy I knew was studying for the TOEFL test and was memorizing all kinds of medical terms I'd never heard about, and yet, when he said goodbye he'd also say "I go first". At that time I had no idea why he did it, but as I learned more Mandarin it became clear that he just translated the phrase 我先走 (lit. I first go) which is very common when parting ways. Point being, many study for tests but can't speak Engl…

Is "I go first" a correct translation? If so, why is it used? As an excuse that you have to leave earlier than the person you have been with? Or to avoid that uncomfortable situation where both parties aren't sure if it is time to leave, and are just standing around awkwardly?

That underscores something about languages. They don't actually map 1:1 to each other. Whatever "I go first" means to speakers of Mandarin, we might only be able to approximate what that means in English.

An example that comes to mind is the oversimplification that happens when people say that the word "aloha" means "hello" and "goodbye". It only sort of does because that's how it is sometimes used. Really it's a whole concept that is unique to Hawaiian culture that would more accurately translate to "beloved" or "cherished".

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#133

Post by klyrs »

wruza wrote: post #80
hooande wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well? ...did the anus constricting work??

I tried doing that ten times in a succession and it’s hard. Can someone please explain shortly the essence of this method? Or what’s the joke is, at least.

You managed 10 reps in one sitting? Do that 9 more times today and you'll have achieved your (if dubious) goal.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#134

Post by tsoukase »

Literal translations of phrases from Greek to English language is a whole joke category in Greek. We even translate single compound words, eg πολυέλαιος (=chandelier) to 'much oil' (έλαιον=oil)

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#135

Post by joshspankit »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #128
joshspankit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point about idioms many times being used without awareness of what they “actually” mean, and while I would still say it’s interesting for me to hear/see the idiom anyway, it’s not really the meat of where the “mind” is to me. There are dozens of examples I can think of, such as how people refer to themselves and to others (Japanese is especially interesting here), how people communicate spatial rela…

> There are dozens of examples I can think of, such as how people refer to themselves and to others (Japanese is especially interesting here), how people communicate spatial relationships/directions, and how people refer to body parts (calf in Portuguese literally translates as “potato of the leg”). The last one is surely an idiom, and the other parts are the ones that are often hard to translate literally. I wouldn'…

> The last one is surely an idiom

What about French’s “potato” translating as “Apple of the ground”?

In Canada that’s how bilingual packaging labels potatoes.

This also I suppose raises an interesting question: is the boundary between idiom and word really that clear?

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#136

Post by exolymph »

cbfrench wrote: post #54
exolymph wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. I'm stoked about David Bentley Hart's New Testament translation for that reason: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/030024844X/ref=ox_sc_sav... > Reproducing the texts' often fragmentary formulations without augmentation or correction, he has produced a pitilessly literal translation, one that captures the texts' impenetrability and unfinished quality while awakening readers to an uncanniness that often lies hi…

It’s up for conjecture how “pitilessly literal” the DBH translation is. As is the case with most translations, he imports his own agenda (particularly with regard to his universalist soteriology). It’s good, but it’s also not as “pitilessly” objective as he may believe it to be. Traduttore, traditore, etc.

Sure, caveat emptor.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#137

Post by joshspankit »

yongjik wrote: post #62
joshspankit wrote: post #27

I hope this is not too off-topic, but I really wish there were more (excellent) “literal translations”. Yes: it would be tricky and unpalatable for much of the audience, but I personally find it fascinating to get in to the “mind” of a language and would like the opportunity without having to memorize (something I find particularly challenging) the “words” of a language. Movie and TV subtitles especially.

I'm in the skeptical camp when it comes to literal translations - I don't think it shows the "mind" of the source language. If anything, I think it has the opposite effect of losing the forest in search of trees, or making phrases unnecessarily more "exotic" than they originally are. E.g., if I say in Korean that I've become "green onion kimchi", I'm not picturing green onion kimchi in my mind. (I don't even particul…

Couldn’t not share this here, even though I suspect no more than 5 people will ever see this comment: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJEPfv6Q/
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