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Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

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Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#41

Post by refurb »

xxpor wrote: post #37
somerandomqaguy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit…

That's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were gas would be maybe $20k at best.

Is it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years.

Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine that with small volumes and I’m not surprised in the least it crazy expensive.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#42

Post by PaulWaldman »

rootusrootus wrote: post #32
greesil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Bolt. Inexpensive, smooth, carries kids, has a roof rack.

Agreed, there's a lot to be said for it. I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Bolt, which means I get plenty of seat time in both. I wouldn't say the Tesla is definitively better. There are things I definitely prefer the Bolt for.

Can you elaborate on the Bolt's advantages over a Model 3?

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#43

Post by zamfi »

refurb wrote: post #40
danans wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on mai…

I don’t buy dealership that dealerships don’t like EVs because they make less money on repairs. A lot of the work dealers do is warranty work (paid my mfr). Warranty work is due to manufacturer defect and defects can happen with ICE vehicles or EVs. Just look at the build quality issues Tesla was having. Maintenance and repair issues go far beyond the engine. Power train, electrical, doors, windows, brakes, lighting…

The reality is less important than the perception, though. The perception among laypeople is that EVs are less maintenance than ICEs, even though that may only be marginally true. The perception among dealership staff likely matches this.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#44

Post by PaulWaldman »

It would be interesting to take a step in a parallel universe where GM decided to invest heavily in electric vehicles after the EV1. One where they followed up the EV1 with a whole portfolio of electric cars. Maybe even converting Saturn to its first electric only brand.

Where would this put electric cars today? Would we see cars with a 500 mile range selling for $30k? I kinda doubt it.

My recollection is that GM instead pivoted massive investments in hydrogen fuel cells, which require much smaller batteries. It was probably a hedge against the slow advancement of battery technologies. Unfortunately it seems like hydrogen fuel cells are getting skipped entirely for battery electric vehicles for consumer vehicles.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#45

Post by imglorp »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #23
perardi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)

Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla ha…

> GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla.

Can they use the supercharger network? Or are they restricted to shower charging on road trips?

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#46

Post by labcomputer »

fortran77 wrote: post #31

> had 142 miles of range decades ago It's intesting that they managed to get 2x the range of the first-gen "LEAF" without Lion technology

The 1999 EPA range test was even more optimistic than the current test. On the current test, the EV-1 would earn closer to 100 miles.

It’s also a tiny 2-seater compared to the 5-seat Leaf.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#48

Post by csours »

throw0101a wrote: post #6
imglorp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range, with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like hatchback and headlights that steer into curves. But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive…

Doing a quick search, GM's ten best-selling vehicles were trucks and SUVs in 2019: * https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-the-10-best-... Except for the Malibu (#5). It may be that they are (were?) doing things small to start to learn a bit more before ramping up. Just yesterday (1/15) they announced a major investment for EVs in Ontario: * https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-ann... Th…

https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev

https://www.autonews.com/dealers/about-150-cadillac-dealers-...

Disclaimer: I work for GM. I don't work on any EV specific programs.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#49

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

perardi wrote: post #7
imglorp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range, with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like hatchback and headlights that steer into curves. But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive…

I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”

All of the crossover "SUV"s are hatchbacks. Americans love them.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#50

Post by rootusrootus »

PaulWaldman wrote: post #42
rootusrootus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, there's a lot to be said for it. I drive a Tesla Model 3 and my wife drives a Bolt, which means I get plenty of seat time in both. I wouldn't say the Tesla is definitively better. There are things I definitely prefer the Bolt for.

Can you elaborate on the Bolt's advantages over a Model 3?

Sure!

- Lighter, more nimble -- super tight turning radius, tossable, easy to put anywhere you want in a tight parking lot, etc. Visibility in the Model 3 is great, but it's still a heavier, bigger car.

- The Bolt has CarPlay. I can't get my Model 3 to reliably read me text messages, stream music (even getting it to recognize my playlists in Spotify was a huge chore). CarPlay is just so much easier to use. Love the big map screen on the Tesla screen, but I really wish they'd implement CarPlay. They definitely have the screen real estate to do it.

- The Bolt distinguishes between forward regen and reverse. So when I back down my driveway, it works just like you expect a normal car to do it. In the Tesla I have to push the accelerator to get it to move downhill in reverse. Or else I use creep mode and then have to use the brake at every stoplight. The Bolt gives me both. And since you decide every time you put it in Drive, you can skip regen altogether, which is what my wife does. No going into a menu every time and changing it.

- Cost. This is situational, of course. My Model 3 runs me close to a grand a month in depreciation alone. I paid 6 grand for a 36 month lease on the Bolt.

- Wipers, of course. The Bolt has normal wiper controls. On the Model 3 I have to get used to them running at the highest speed for no reason, or turn them off and resign myself to holding down the stalk button when I need them.

My model 3 is a performance model, so it's silly fast, but the Bolt isn't unpleasantly slow. The Bolt seats suck, but I feel the same about the Model 3 seats (my butt has grown accustomed to Recaros, I got spoiled). The OTA updates are more frequent on the Model 3, definitely, but at least the Bolt can get OTA updates as well. Hell, my F250 can at this point, but Tesla is much more frequently tweaking things.

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