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Toxic positivity does more harm than good

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Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#211

Post by arp242 »

bitcharmer wrote: post #153
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

I couldn't agree more. I'm a slavic expat in UK. I recently raised an issue with how teachers at our kids' school are struggling with utilising technology in productive ways. I also offered taking a day off work to help them get better at things like google classroom and google docs. I was labelled rude solely by pointing out the deficiencies. It didn't really matter that I offered constructive way of resolving this.…

The British way of pointing these things out is something along the lines of "Oh this is great, have you considered X?" Translated to English as you or I would understand it, it's more akin to "meh, it kinda sucks, X is better".

Or something like that anyway; I never really figured out this whole thing in the time I lived there.

Here's a chart to help you get started: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL8gbEoX0AAcwAq?format=jpg&name=...

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#212

Post by danielscrubs »

bitcharmer wrote: post #153
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

I couldn't agree more. I'm a slavic expat in UK. I recently raised an issue with how teachers at our kids' school are struggling with utilising technology in productive ways. I also offered taking a day off work to help them get better at things like google classroom and google docs. I was labelled rude solely by pointing out the deficiencies. It didn't really matter that I offered constructive way of resolving this.…

Brits always say things by wrapping it with 100 layers of cotton, slavs are known to be more straightforward and therefore rude in that sense. It’s not what you said but how probably, you have to hint that it might be a problem.

Personally I love cutting through bullshit but it it can often land wrong.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#213

Post by strokirk »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #83
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

"You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it" I say this to my team a lot, even though they're operating as "expected" levels for my company. The reality is there are a lot of teams and a lot of companies that simply do not expect much from their teams. We do. I want to remind the team that they are doing good work. When people have confidence they're doing a good job, they're more likely to continue to do a good job.

On behalf of the people that DO like praise for continuing to meet or works hard to meet expectations, thank you!

I'm always surprised with how many people (especially at this site?) doesn't seem to like praise and approval.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#214

Post by danielscrubs »

deanCommie wrote: post #172
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

Canadian here. Our culture tends to pick and choose from the best of either the American or the European approach. We don't always get it right, and the combination/middle ground isn't necessarily better than either of the alternatives, but I do feel like we have some general insight and sympathy to both the European and the American philosophies. I've also lived as an ex-pat in Europe for 4 years working closely wit…

Say what you mean, mean what you say.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#215

Post by alacombe »

lallysingh wrote: post #125
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

How does a European in Canada feel?

Depends what Canada, cities are full of thin-skinned pussies, country side folks are ballsy as can be, even the women.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#216

Post by grayfaced »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #78
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..." If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that the…

Yea, different personalities have different motivations. I find that if I receive positive feedback, it doesn't motivate me it only encourages me to take it easier. If I receive negative feedback, I will double down to fix the issue, but my morale will suffer.

What's most important is that the feedback is IMMEDIATE. Tell me after a presentation what I flubbed. Don't tell me after a quarter that my presentation skills are lacking.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#217

Post by arp242 »

deanCommie wrote: post #172
Bayart wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

Canadian here. Our culture tends to pick and choose from the best of either the American or the European approach. We don't always get it right, and the combination/middle ground isn't necessarily better than either of the alternatives, but I do feel like we have some general insight and sympathy to both the European and the American philosophies. I've also lived as an ex-pat in Europe for 4 years working closely wit…

> Europeans are overly sensitive about "micro-friendliness". I've heard people complain that the cashier at the grocery store asks "How are you doing?". "They don't really care, why do they ask!"

This is more of an expectations thing; certainly in Dutch, asking "how are you doing" is something you do when you ask when you really want to start a conversation, and you expect a somewhat serious reply in return, whereas in some other cultures it essentially just means "hi" with no expectation of a real answer beyond "good" or some such.

When I worked for an Irish company I had some coworkers say "how are ya" when meeting in the hallway or some such; I started replying serious ("yeah, I'm good, last night I [..]") but they didn't really expect an answer so continued walking leaving us both confused; me as they didn't stop, and them as I started a conversation. It led to some awkward-y situations before I figured this out haha

At any rate, I don't think it's "sensitivity", it's just that these words are taken to have a different meaning. These are the kind of subtle things about learning a language; you can know all the words and grammar, but you also need to learn what's meant with them, and that can actually be pretty hard. Translating a simple sentence such as this is easy, but really understanding what's intended (which may differ on the tone of voice, location, context, etc.) is really hard, and even Europeans who speak good English but haven't spent a lot of time in English-speaking countries tend to fail at this (I certainly did) as it's not really something you can learn from communicating in English over text either.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#218

Post by grayfaced »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #105
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

For us, the choice is time-off award or cash award. To me it's a no-brainer because in terms of hourly pay, the time-off translates to significantly more money. But others struggle to find reasons to take time-off.

Good management knows what people want. Even better management recognizes that someone is burning out and gives the time-off even when they'd prefer cash.

There's a third minor option. Gift certificates for company swag. It's almost never used, because people find it insulting.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#220

Post by blastro »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

those examples you gave turn my stomach - because i find them so manipulative. they focus only on your productive output as an employee and completely ignore the inherent value you have as an intelligent being.

i find it fascinating that the same "positivity" turned in another, more humane direction (ie. "you guys showed up today, that's fantastic!!", or "we failed but who cares, we rock anyways") can transform into something that i think actually serves a purpose - forging a robust spirit. i actually appreciate that attitude in my peers. it's funny how razor thin the difference between what we are each describing. it's the same thing - unflappable, stupid belief - but applied for different ends.

thanks for the thought prompt!!!!

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