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Toxic positivity does more harm than good

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Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#141

Post by bzb6 »

Bayart wrote: post #96
hnarn wrote: post #80

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out. Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd m…

American in Europe : "Jesus, everyone here is so rude and cold." European in America : "Jesus, everyone here is so fake and annoying."

Welcome to Costco, I love you.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#142

Post by didibus »

tchalla wrote: post #110
ChuckMcM wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..." If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that the…

In the end, HOW you deliver feedback matters. Personally, I have three important characteristics for a feedback. Point 1 : "Be Specific". I can not stress this enough. Please point out specific observable behaviour. Point 2 : Frame feedback in terms of team/organisational goals. Every team has a purpose within the organisation. It's a team game and every team member should know the feedback in context of the team gam…

You should write a book for managers, and every page should just be this comment repeated for 200 pages.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#143

Post by kofejnik »

Interestingly, I have this link open in another tab: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/do-elder-g...

where they argue that Goths subculture manages to deal with aging very well precisely because they eschew fake positivity and eternal youth and concentrate on deeper emotions and themes instead

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#144

Post by rglullis »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #105
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

> between a Patagonia shirt and a plaque

If I wanted a shirt, I'd buy a shirt. If the plaque truly reflected some effort done by the team that accomplished something big and deserved proper recognition, I get why people would prefer it. You can't buy respect.

Now, of course the cynical me will argue that the whole thing is a trick question and that no one of the alternatives are good - downright offensive actually.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#145

Post by ryanSrich »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #105
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

> Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a survey where we could choose between a Patagonia shirt and a plaque. Guess what? The majority voted for the plaque. That was astonishing to me but a good reminder that I seem to be different.

Holy shit. This is incredible. I’d be curious what management forced you to do during this period. Longer hours?

I wish there was some “fucked company” equivalent for tracking corporate charades like this.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#146

Post by JimTheMan »

rimiform wrote: post #64
occamrazor wrote: post #52

What’s wrong with “At least”? What is the implied rest of the sentence?

"At least you still have a job (even if it sucks)"

And further to that, by saying that sentence the person is not acknowledging someone’s pain and suffering. They are dismissing their concerns.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#147

Post by [deleted] »

shrimpx wrote: post #136
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

This may sound a bit cynical but it's honest: When everyone else is gratuitously praising engineering, it sort of creates an atmosphere that feels like engineering is being taken advantage of by these other people: managers, sales people, execs. It feels like these people think you're their cash cow, and also that they think you're kind of stupid, and gratuitous compliments are enough to keep the cash cow going. That…

[deleted]

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#148

Post by taurath »

Toxic positivity often comes from the idea that seeking happiness is the right goal always. If you believe that then you believe anyone who is not happy is somehow failing and you can give them a hand up. The right word I think should be contentment. Happiness is impossible to have all the time. You can have contentment pretty much all the time.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#149

Post by andersource »

throw14082020 wrote: post #114
ChuckMcM wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..." If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that the…

> "this team is killing it" for ahead of plan Why do you think telling your team this is useful? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/about-fathers/201202...

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the linked article. There are a few important distinctions, most notably (from the article itself):

> "We praise drawings ... because we want our kids to continue to work hard, and to do good work... But what we really want to teach our children... is that they should do good work because of the satisfactions it provides."

While I understand how this could apply to children (if not necessarily agree), we don't manage teams to have fun, we do want to encourage them to do good work.

As for the wider question, if a team is doing really good work, why not give credit where it's due? I feel like not acknowledging when people are putting in extra effort is a great way to discourage them from doing that.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#150

Post by ciceryadam »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #105
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

From past experience I would LOVE to see some managerial acknowledgement of their fuckups that lead to crunch time. Praise is temporary, but if no changes are introduced from the other end of the work pipeline people will get crushed.
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