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Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

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Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#21

Post by freshfunk »

kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

I understand the positive qualities of being Kirk-esque and creating one's own rules (see Kobayashi Maru). I also understand the qualities of being single-minded in purpose, determination and the will to succeed. These are qualities needed to survive in the uncertain, risky and scary environment of an entrepreneur.

However, I wonder when we begin to cross the fine-line between naughtiness, white-lies, small-rule breaking and moral flexibility to privacy-violating, scamming, propaganda spreading and even law-breaking actions.

In a world where one will do anything to win, it seems all too easy to fall by the wayside towards morally-questionable deeds.

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#22

Post by gruseom »

kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

You're confusing naughtiness with evil. Naughtiness has to do with breaking conventions, evil with hurting others.

If you followed PG's record, you'd know how strong an advocate he is that startups be good.

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#23

Post by freshfunk »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #11
jonathanberger wrote: post #8

It's interesting to see pg's opinion about what is important in founders evolve over the years. When I applied to YC in late 2008, I was told by alumni that YC was "looking for smart people." Although he's talked about discipline and determination as early as May 2004 in his essays those words were most commonly found next to the words "talent," "skill," or "smart," as if the two qualities were equally important. Now…

Maybe they've figured out that there are plenty of smart people, but not as many truly determined people. Determination then becomes the limiting factor once smartness has been established.

This reminds me of Outliers when Gladwell talks about concert violinists.

"All of the violinists had started playing at around age five, and they all played about two or three hours a week during the first few years. However, around the age of eight, an important difference began to emerge in the amount of hours they each practiced. By age 20, the stars in the group had all totaled 10,000 hours of practice over the course of their lives; the “good” students had totaled 8,000 hours; and the future music teachers just over 4,000 hours.

What the research suggested was that once you have enough talent to get into a top music school, the thing that distinguishes one performer from another is how hard he or she works."

Being in Silicon Valley, I meet smart entrepreneurs all the time. Many of them come from places like Stanford. I think many pass the basic threshold of intelligence. In fact, this is more than passing considering that it doesn't take an elite education to create a good company IMO.

Obviously, not all these people succeed and so the other factor behind success is likely to be what you said: determination.

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#24

Post by freshfunk »

gruseom wrote: post #22
kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

You're confusing naughtiness with evil. Naughtiness has to do with breaking conventions, evil with hurting others. If you followed PG's record, you'd know how strong an advocate he is that startups be good.

In a morally-flexible environment, it's easy to confuse the two.

For example - Zynga selling offers (for credits) with very fine print that signs you up for paid services. And the fine print is so convoluted/tiny most people don't read it. Helping or hurting consumers?

- Facebook hiring a PR firm to highlight questionable privacy practices by Google. Helping users or hurting Google?

- Subprime mortgages. Helping or hurting homeowners?

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#25

Post by bad_user »

tlb wrote: post #16
kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

The Google founders were more than simply good. They were determined to be #1. Most people aren't.

You're saying it like faith is involved. Success is a combination of many factors, including but not limited to talent, luck, education, environment, persistence, social skills and ability to adapt.

Some people are born with some of these factors, but the truth of the matter is that persistence matters most and if you are persistent most other things can fall into place or be balanced by other factors.

Lots of people are as smart as the Google founders, lots of people have similar educational background. Superstar co-founders, much as athletes, are people too. The major difference between them and you is that they continuously try to do the best they can do and do not quit when the going gets tough.

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#27

Post by ignifero »

kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

Intelligence and strong entitlement don't match. Show me a real genius who has strong sense of entitlement. Salesmen have it. Certainly PG doesn't have it.

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#28

Post by patio11 »

kemiller wrote: post #14

This is probably the single most discouraging thing I've ever read about startups, but at least it's honest. Entitlement? "Naughtiness"? I think after Google, the idea got out there that it's possible to succeed by just being good . Technically and morally. This sounds like a return to status quo. Not saying he's wrong. He's almost certainly right, it's just depressing.

Google is at least a little naughty. Remember, at the dawn of the Internet, there was quite a bit of ambiguity with regards to IP rights. Many newspapers sent out Cease and Desists just for deep-linking to their articles. There was still quite a bit of presumption about how much control of use copyright gave you.

Google walks into this minefield and says "You know, we're going to crawl and cache everything, then exploit the data in it for our own selfish commercial purposes." And it worked!

Re: Y Combinator’s Paul Graham: We’re Looking For People Like Us

#29

Post by gruseom »

freshfunk wrote: post #24
gruseom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing naughtiness with evil. Naughtiness has to do with breaking conventions, evil with hurting others. If you followed PG's record, you'd know how strong an advocate he is that startups be good.

In a morally-flexible environment, it's easy to confuse the two. For example - Zynga selling offers (for credits) with very fine print that signs you up for paid services. And the fine print is so convoluted/tiny most people don't read it. Helping or hurting consumers? - Facebook hiring a PR firm to highlight questionable privacy practices by Google. Helping users or hurting Google? - Subprime mortgages. Helping or h…

In a morally-flexible environment

You're assuming your conclusion. Punctiliously following convention doesn't make you good. It just safely ensconces you near the mean. Not a promising place for startup founders to reside.

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes is naughty. He's not evil or even "morally-flexible".

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