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Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

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Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#21

Post by stretchcat »

perardi wrote: post #14
CalChris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nissan Leaf is a hatchback. The Tesla Model S is a hatchback. So is the Y. You might be right about real Amuricuns but the EV buying segment rather likes hatchbacks. With the exception of one SUV, which I did not like, every car I've ever owned since my first Honda Civic has been a hatchback.

Oh, Americans actually like vehicles that happen to have a large hatch in the back, but they do not like cars that are shaped like hatchbacks. The Model S is shaped like a sports sedan. It does not look like a hatchback.

If you think a hatchback doesn't look the way you expect a hatchback to look, then your expectation of what hatchbacks look like is obviously wrong and should be updated.

If I had to guess, what you think of as "looks like a hatchback" is actually 'two-box' while "shaped like a sedan" is 'three-box.' Three-box hatchbacks have been around for decades though.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#22

Post by danans »

imglorp wrote: post #4
maxerickson wrote: post #2

$50,000+ in year 2000 dollars for 142 mile range.

Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range, with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like hatchback and headlights that steer into curves. But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive…

> But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it.

With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on maintenance revenue for EV engines.

There is also cultural friction resulting from the use of petroleum becoming an identity politics issue for many - with particular constituencies (like auto dealerships and oil companies) having their interests tied to petroleum based vehicle technology. The grassroots expressions of this include the "ICE-ing" of EV chargers [1].

This identity dimension has increased as petroleum gradually loses its actual product advantages (rapid fueling being the most significant).

1. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-identifies-a... https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-hating-pickup-driv...

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#23

Post by cmrdporcupine »

perardi wrote: post #12
acct776 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them retain market strength longer. Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious ventures in.

Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)

Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM.

GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and lifespans seriously.

GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not producing compliance cars.

Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders, and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned to do better than the others once those obstacles are surmounted.

The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I love, but the tech in it is excellent.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#25

Post by BoorishBears »

itsoktocry wrote: post #18
perardi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”

> “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks" Where on earth do you get his from? The top selling cars in the US are mostly SUVs and CUVs. In other words, hatchbacks.

Although technically this is a hatchback:

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/vg6LR/s1/2018-bmw-430i-gra...

and this is a hatchback:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/76/9d/9e769dd145c21f6aaedf...

In casual speech most people are referring to two-box sub-compact/compact hatchbacks that look like this:

https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14323/2020...

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/38b2e6935d2caa4e96e963348fc...

https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14314/2020...

Which are much more popular in Europe than the US. In the US they're often derided as "econoboxes"

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#26

Post by somerandomqaguy »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #23
perardi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know they’ll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as much of a nerd pod as possible. (And there’s a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that ain’t Chevy’s market, no sir.)

Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla ha…

GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first.

I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit sold other then for compliance.

[1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/

[2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-make-mon...

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#27

Post by Something1234 »

Tade0 wrote: post #20

Reminds me of the "abandoned" Subaru(or actually Fuji) dealership in Malta: https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/time-capsu... Only the car in question is much more unique.

Is there an interview with owner or something that explains more than it exists and hasn't been updated?

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#28

Post by tomcam »

greesil wrote: post #19
perardi wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design of the Bolt. “You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let’s go for that for our big re-entry into the EV market.”

I love my Bolt. Inexpensive, smooth, carries kids, has a roof rack.

+1. I combine the two and carry my kids on the roof rack for additional cargo space.

Re: Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker

#30

Post by evgen »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #26
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not describe GM. GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in all states and provinces of North America. Which is more than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only GM and Tesla ha…

GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020 and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on Cadilliac branded EV's first. I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to create a production line, and then take a loss per unit…

> GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1].

Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate if the government subsidies happen to dry up.

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