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Signal is having technical difficulties

status.signal.org

701–710 of 750 posts

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First comment that I saw: > Telegram uses custom cryptography. > Signal uses encryption protocols sponsored by Broadcasting Board of Governors, a sister federal agency to the State Department. In plain words, data easily accessible by CIA, NASA and FBI. I wonder what NASA will do with my Signal messages, maybe use them for a giggle in between transmissions from Mars. Also, recent blog post about Telegram and its cryp…

> I wonder what NASA will do with my Signal messages They batch them up and send them to deep space through SETI. The aliens are the real ones behind surveillance operations which they use to create a reality TV show. And with this NASA prevents the world from being destroyed from said aliens.

They call it Operation Scheherazade.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#702
It's very poor on anyone to be so toxic about free, valued services and then at first fail jump to public media to scream outrage.

Signal is going to be better than ever by going through these moments and improving the platform. I don't mind the inconvenience and don't expect premium quality with five nines of availability. I'm not in a position to complain.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#703
post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could very well be, but there's no way to prove that. Sure, but espionage and surveillance are rarely about proving anything, they're about making good educated guesses. Besides, the receiver will very likely be among your friends and acquaintances, so the NSA would only have to look at your social circle to find them.

it is amusing that you think you have fair chance if NSA/government really wants to get you. Buy hey if that makes you sleep at night be my guest.

Are you sure you're responding to the right comment? I didn't say anything like that.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is not a secure chat application though. It's more similar to Facebook Messenger. You're better off using WhatsApp over it if you care about security. Or obviously Signal. When it comes to Matrix, it's a little trickier. Riot, the most common Matrix client does E2E encryption on DMs and invite only rooms. What I'm not sure is what happens if you send a private message to someone who is using Matrix client th…

Yes. Telegram is not secure. You are better of using messenger or airsend ( https://www.airsend.io/ ). Here is a detailed post on Telegram security ( https://heimdalsecurity.com/blog/is-telegram-secure/ ). E2E encryption is not default it applies to only secure chats.

End to end encryption isn't even in the top 5 when I'm selecting a chat client for general personal use.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how taxes work, unfortunately you can't pick and choose to which causes they go. That's why, in a democracy, you vote to elect your representative who will, hopefully, make sure your taxes contribute to causes you deem worthy. Be it open source, health services, education, ...

You are right - taxation is coercion and not virtuous. You are also right about representative democracy - the incentive is to have the state fleeze your neighbour as much as possible. For those working in the bureaucracy the incentive is to convince the boss you need a larger budget next year. Certainly far from “love thy neighbour”. Donate yourself, you can be a hundred times more efficient than EU bureaucracy, no…

Eh, but in reality no not really. The PyPy project is one example of a fantastic outcome for OSS (among others): they where heavily reliant on EU funding to get to the point they are now. VLC, glibc, Keepass, Kafka, tomcat and others have had EU funds for their security bounty programs. My 10 EUR contribution to this via my taxes (simplistic and incorrect) is fine. Angry anti-tax anti-big-gov rhetoric involving wishful thinking whilst ignoring the reality we actually live in does little to advance your cause, and for lack of a better word makes you sound rather silly.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How sympathetic are the Signal developers to the concerns of dissidents, really? Signal has had a policy of many years to require a phone number – buying a SIM card now requires providing government ID in so many countries – and only now have they promised progress on this front someday. They also recommend that users install through the Play Store, and they only grudgingly provide a standalone APK. Anyone with the P…

> How sympathetic are the Signal developers to the concerns of dissidents, really? There’s a known problem where the majority of Chinese Android users use a third-party IME to enter text. This is vulnerable to eavesdropping and easy for Signal to detect and warn the user about. Chinese people have been asking them to do this for over a year, telling them that they know of people who have been detained by the governme…

I mean, technically it is not their responsibility to make sure everything surrounding the app is also secure. Someone could also be watching users over their backs, their device could be rootkitted. Where do you draw the line? I think it would be better to put resources into developing an open-source, non-compromised IME but that is out of scope.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#707
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone can host a server and talk to anyone on any Matrix server. I host my web, my email, my XMPP, my TURN/STUN, etc, so I gave Matrix a try. In short: it's horrible. It's insanely resource hungry, both synapse and dendrite, plus dendrite is so not finished it hurts. Stick to XMPP until Matrix is in an actually usable shape when one doesn't need a small power reactor to run it.

When was the last time you tried? My Synapse is stably hovering around 400M RSS with about 10-15% CPU usage. It has about 20 active users, each with 2-3 devices and is joined in hundreds of rooms on the federation.

> When was the last time you tried?

About an hour ago.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

What if Amazon finds out they aren’t moderating users’ messages and Signal gets used in some future attack. It’s not a far leap for Amazon to “take a strong stance against serious threats to our democracy” by kicking off signal.

Despite recent events, I don’t see this happening. Signal has a strong reputation as a privacy-supporting app without any weird fringe Internet subculture attached to it. And I’m unaware of any public groups like you find on Facebook or WhatsApp.

De-platforming a private messenger like Signal would be a strong signal against an open, unmonitored Internet and raise too many eyebrows. Amazon would be seen as complicit with government for not allowing citizens to communicate freely and privately with each-other.

If Signal adds features to let users post extremist views publicly, that’s a whole different ballgame and the cards are off the table.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like the donations are powered by Donorbox.org.

And the actual card details are collected by Stripe - looks like an iframe inside an iframe.

I wonder how much shower time moves in that iframed iframe.

Re: Signal is having technical difficulties

#710
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that Signal doesn't have AWS instances in other regions? (I haven't checked but given their popularity, I'm sure their servers are not just in the US anymore.) > They can do sealed sender stuff all they like, but when 10.0.1.1 sends a 17-byte message and the server then sends a 17-byte message to 10.0.2.1, and a minute later 10.0.2.1 submits something to the server of 48 bytes and then 48 bytes a…

> AWS instances in other regions Is still Amazon operating those locations, so I assume it's still the USA who's calling the shots. Please do prove me wrong if I am, this is somewhat of an assumption (even if I am fairly confident it works this way in practice). Though perhaps I'm putting too much weight on this aspect, it's just that everything we do in Europe can be monitored through one USA organisation or another…

> Is still Amazon operating those locations, so I assume it's still the USA who's calling the shots. Please do prove me wrong if I am, this is somewhat of an assumption (even if I am fairly confident it works this way in practice).

The whole point of Amazon operating datacenters in multiple regions is that, apart from improving availability of the stuff they host, datacenters outside the US get to be legally independent from US law. (At least at the consulting firm I work for we strongly advise clients to follow GDPR and use the European region only.) My guess would therefore be that European datacenters, for instance, are operated by Amazon EU S.à r.l.

> Domain fronting: didn't Amazon and Google say they were not going to do that anymore, because they didn't want to stand up for the organisations using it at the time? Some countries wanted to block certain services (was it sci-hub? TPB? Tor? I don't remember) and instead of standing up for them, they just banned domain fronting.

You might be right, I'm not sure what the state of domain fronting is, either. In any case, the fact alone that inside an AWS datacenter Signal can operate an almost arbitrary number of servers (as opposed to a single one) without anyone outside the datacenter being able to tell which machine a packet gets routed to or originates from, means that the Signal servers inside the datacenter can potentially handle millions of messages per second which would make correlating them with one another anything but easy. Remember that messages get padded anyway and that there might be additional random delays, depending on which server in a datacenter your message gets routed to. On top of that, judging from the Distributed Systems Developer position Signal advertizes on their website[0] I would assume that Signal's servers need to communicate with one another, too, i.e. your message might go to a European datacenter first and then, from there, go to one on the other side of the world – which would further complicate tracing it. Finally, message notifications on phones usually use Firebase Cloud Messaging (or the Apple equivalent) which adds yet another layer of indirection, delays and mixing[1] and, thus, obfuscation.

All in all, I am not sure, therefore, if I agree with your assessment that

> it should only be a very manageable number of packets, since we're only interested in the routing header and packet size.

as the number and overall scenario don't seem that trivial to me.

> the attack scenario was more about legal interception (which you put in front of the server rather than in front of the datacenter)

Fair enough, if you tap every single server's network cable, it certainly seems more doable. But how do you, as the NSA, carry that out in practice? Knock at the door of that European datacenter and hope employees won't say anything to the press? I'm not saying it's impossible (it's certainly not) but Amazon EU S.à r.l. being a separate legal entity and employees not being bound to US law would certainly be big operational challenges. I'd say it's much more likely that the NSA's European intelligence agencies carry out such a task for them (or provide support) and even then it's not as easy as in the U.S. (no Patriot Act or anything similar).

Finally, don't forget that AWS instances can be deployed within a minute, meaning that "putting something in front of a specific server" becomes a lot less trivial if you don't really know which server it is or new servers get deployed every other day. (For once, an advantage of The Cloud™ haha.) You basically have no other choice than to put your wiretapping device in front of the entire datacenter.

> thus Matrix is king in this regard [legal interception]

I'm not sure it is. There are pros and cons to both centralized and federated networks here: A central big provider might have the legal power and sufficiently deep pockets to successfully fend off a "request" by an intelligence agency. Small ones like in the federated case do not. Sure, it takes longer to subvert a federated network. But once done, the traffic analysis is a lot easier compared to the centralized scenario (as we already agreed).

> Sure, once you know who is running a server

I don't think it's that hard to find out who's running a server (in Europe) when you have its IP address. Almost everyone who operates a server for private purposes ties the server to a domain or at least a bank account. (Remember that the EU forwards financial data to US agencies.)

> But if there is no single central service, you need to install a lot of taps or capture the right internet backbones to get close to the same information.

The NSA already does that! (Compare what's been reported e.g. about NSA's Tailored Access Operations (TAO) team.) My general assumption, therefore, is always that the NSA and its partner agencies are sitting at every major internet backbone.

> And if you're serious about anonymity, if you're hiding from the police or an intelligence agency, then surely you'd host that server somewhere paid for without traces to your real name. Or use some public home server -- they still need to tap that specific home server rather than a centralized server.

I agree with the first sentence but I don't understand the second. Practically all traffic to and from a public server you're running at home gets routed through an internet backbone anyway. (Unless, maybe, your Matrix contacts are all in your neighborhood and are all with the same ISP.)

[0]: https://signal.org/workworkwork/

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mix_network

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