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English as She Is Spoke

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Re: English as She Is Spoke

#81

Post by Symbiote »

tim333 wrote: post #77
hermitcrab wrote: post #75

I have never understood why Chinese companies often have such hilariously bad English translations of their product instructions. Often the product quality is pretty good and the illustrations in the instructions are fine. But the English translation is terrible. There must be millions of Chinese people that speak decent English (in Hong Kong alone).

I think they tend to be more expensive and thin in the ground in mainland China - Hong Kongers or native English speakers. That said Google translate does quite a decent job.

You need at least one person with at least basic English knowledge to know that the Chinese translation service is bad. (Google is blocked, remember.)

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#82

Post by Symbiote »

henrikschroder wrote: post #56
whym wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are thinking about foreignization, which is more common (but still not really common) in the translation of literary fictions than that of subtitles. I think most movies don't do that because they target casual audience who is not ready to consume too much foreignization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_and_foreignizati...

Well, one more example for the TV show I spent time translating: It's a teen high school drama, but it's a Norwegian high school, not an American high school. The characters have all just started high school, but during your first year in Norway, you and your classmates will vary in age from 15-16-17, and high school lasts three years, not four. If you use "freshmen" to describe them, you get the "new at school" aspe…

For what it's worth, "freshman" is American, and the related British/Australian/NZ term "fresher" only applies to first year students in their first weeks at university - not at schools.

I'm glad you didn't use the word. It would seem really out of place.

In England, we just said "6th year" (cf Harry Potter), "lower sixth" or "Year 12", depending on how old fashioned the school was.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#83

Post by TonyTrapp »

hermitcrab wrote: post #75

I have never understood why Chinese companies often have such hilariously bad English translations of their product instructions. Often the product quality is pretty good and the illustrations in the instructions are fine. But the English translation is terrible. There must be millions of Chinese people that speak decent English (in Hong Kong alone).

It's not an explanation, but I know enough people who are convinced that they actually speak proper English, but most of the time it turns into grammatical gibberish, and they fail to realize that even when you point it out. If you're one of those people and think you are up for the job, and noone else proof-reads what you are actually doing... maybe this would result in this kind of instruction manual?

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#84

Post by ant6n »

kome wrote: post #70
henrikschroder wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent a considerable amount subtitling a TV series, and there were subtitles floating around for it before I started, but they contained a ton of bad English; wrong idioms, and wrong word order. But when I did my translation, I tried to stick to the word order and expressions of the original language when possible . You could translate each sentence to the most likely way an English-speaking person would express…

"But in French, that dialogue goes "Je t'aime" - "Moi aussi". So in this case we actually picked "Me too" as the translation for that, which definitely sticks out, but comes across as a little bit of a teaching French moment, because you can clearly hear that the character isn't saying "Je t'aime aussi"." true! and to be honest, also the first one isn't probably meaning "je t'aime" at all

Literally “I thou like/love”

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#85

Post by joshspankit »

henrikschroder wrote: post #56
whym wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are thinking about foreignization, which is more common (but still not really common) in the translation of literary fictions than that of subtitles. I think most movies don't do that because they target casual audience who is not ready to consume too much foreignization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_and_foreignizati...

Well, one more example for the TV show I spent time translating: It's a teen high school drama, but it's a Norwegian high school, not an American high school. The characters have all just started high school, but during your first year in Norway, you and your classmates will vary in age from 15-16-17, and high school lasts three years, not four. If you use "freshmen" to describe them, you get the "new at school" aspe…

I think this is a good example of a time when even the “general audience” is best served by using a “foreignization”, or even by just using the original word with some notes as to what that means.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#86

Post by joshspankit »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #73
joshspankit wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a dangerous short-term tactic. What happens when the translation software gets better or just changes? Suddenly your text comes out wrong again.

You've misunderstood the parent. He's not suggesting that you speak in order to attain some predicted Google Translate output, but instead it's helpful to use precise language that doesn't rely on a shared contextual understanding. For example, you'd use the phrase "upload it to the server" rather than "put it on the server" - the verb "upload" is unambiguous and lets both the recipient and the translation software k…

Ahhhh that makes much more sense, thank you for clarifying.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#87

Post by hashmush »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #83
hermitcrab wrote: post #75

I have never understood why Chinese companies often have such hilariously bad English translations of their product instructions. Often the product quality is pretty good and the illustrations in the instructions are fine. But the English translation is terrible. There must be millions of Chinese people that speak decent English (in Hong Kong alone).

It's not an explanation, but I know enough people who are convinced that they actually speak proper English, but most of the time it turns into grammatical gibberish, and they fail to realize that even when you point it out. If you're one of those people and think you are up for the job, and noone else proof-reads what you are actually doing... maybe this would result in this kind of instruction manual?

A Chinese guy I knew was studying for the TOEFL test and was memorizing all kinds of medical terms I'd never heard about, and yet, when he said goodbye he'd also say "I go first". At that time I had no idea why he did it, but as I learned more Mandarin it became clear that he just translated the phrase 我先走 (lit. I first go) which is very common when parting ways.

Point being, many study for tests but can't speak English.

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#88

Post by lqet »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #78
hermitcrab wrote: post #75

I have never understood why Chinese companies often have such hilariously bad English translations of their product instructions. Often the product quality is pretty good and the illustrations in the instructions are fine. But the English translation is terrible. There must be millions of Chinese people that speak decent English (in Hong Kong alone).

This is just something that I read somewhere so don't take it at face value, maybe someone who knows the issue better can confirm or deny it. But I remember reading that in Asian countries like China and Japan, they tend to base the selection of translators on knowledge of the source language, not the target. That is, they get the translator with the best knowledge of Chinese even if their English is broken.

So is this basically saying that a grammatically incorrect, but factually correct translation is better than a grammatically perfect, but factually incorrect (as the source text was not understood) translation?

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#89

Post by joshspankit »

yongjik wrote: post #62
joshspankit wrote: post #27

I hope this is not too off-topic, but I really wish there were more (excellent) “literal translations”. Yes: it would be tricky and unpalatable for much of the audience, but I personally find it fascinating to get in to the “mind” of a language and would like the opportunity without having to memorize (something I find particularly challenging) the “words” of a language. Movie and TV subtitles especially.

I'm in the skeptical camp when it comes to literal translations - I don't think it shows the "mind" of the source language. If anything, I think it has the opposite effect of losing the forest in search of trees, or making phrases unnecessarily more "exotic" than they originally are. E.g., if I say in Korean that I've become "green onion kimchi", I'm not picturing green onion kimchi in my mind. (I don't even particul…

In cases like that it would be up to me as the fascinated viewer to dig in to those idioms. It would be helped with a translator’s notes of course, but I would expect it to take a little extra time and effort to watch a show like that.

At the end in your example, I feel like I would have a deeper understanding of kimchi as it relates to Korean speakers, how “green onion kimchi” is different, and why that means someone is dead tired.

Then, next time it comes up I would understand it a little better due to slightly different context.

To me, that all feels like a win

Re: English as She Is Spoke

#90

Post by lqet »

hashmush wrote: post #87
TonyTrapp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an explanation, but I know enough people who are convinced that they actually speak proper English, but most of the time it turns into grammatical gibberish, and they fail to realize that even when you point it out. If you're one of those people and think you are up for the job, and noone else proof-reads what you are actually doing... maybe this would result in this kind of instruction manual?

A Chinese guy I knew was studying for the TOEFL test and was memorizing all kinds of medical terms I'd never heard about, and yet, when he said goodbye he'd also say "I go first". At that time I had no idea why he did it, but as I learned more Mandarin it became clear that he just translated the phrase 我先走 (lit. I first go) which is very common when parting ways. Point being, many study for tests but can't speak Engl…

Is "I go first" a correct translation? If so, why is it used? As an excuse that you have to leave earlier than the person you have been with? Or to avoid that uncomfortable situation where both parties aren't sure if it is time to leave, and are just standing around awkwardly?
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