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Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

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Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#611

Post by rualca »

0-_-0 wrote: post #351
rualca wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The command line is a layer of abstraction that could be made unnecessary for programming. Wow, if I ever saw a comment on HN that was fundamentally wrong on many levels, this was it. No, a command line interface is not "a layer of abstraction". A command line interface is an interface. That's it. Instead of pressing a button, you run a command. If you want to pass settings to an app when you launch it, you use the…

Sure, but you're entirely missing the point. Question is, is it necessary for programming? I repeat, to be entirely clear, is it necessary ? Not useful, but necessary for a beginner to touch the command line?

> Question is, is it necessary for programming?

Why, yes?

> Not useful, but necessary for a beginner to touch the command line?

Do you understand that you're asking if a beginner needs to run or pass a setting or even automate any operation that's relevant to programming?

I repeat, a CLI is an interface. It's an interface to perform an action and/or pass a setting. That's it. What warrants this irrational opposition to an interface?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#612

Post by 0-_-0 »

rualca wrote: post #611
0-_-0 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you're entirely missing the point. Question is, is it necessary for programming? I repeat, to be entirely clear, is it necessary ? Not useful, but necessary for a beginner to touch the command line?

> Question is, is it necessary for programming? Why, yes? > Not useful, but necessary for a beginner to touch the command line? Do you understand that you're asking if a beginner needs to run or pass a setting or even automate any operation that's relevant to programming? I repeat, a CLI is an interface. It's an interface to perform an action and/or pass a setting. That's it. What warrants this irrational opposition…

What warrants this fanatical devotion to command line iterfaces while people have been happily coding without them for decades?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#613

Post by wilsonrocks »

DanielKehoe wrote: post #328
wilsonrocks wrote: post #170

I agree with the other comments about the attitude of the post. But as they mention, it can be hard to install ruby/python. Node is normally much easier. I've given up on getting react native going on my personal laptop, and I do react for a loving.

To install Ruby, it helps to have a good guide (but, yes, sometimes they are difficult to find): https://mac.install.guide/ruby/index.html

Thanks! I use a Mac for work but Linux at home. Got it working in Linux with rvm in the end.

Very much enjoying doing some rails after years of JS

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#614

Post by DanielKehoe »

wilsonrocks wrote: post #613
DanielKehoe wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To install Ruby, it helps to have a good guide (but, yes, sometimes they are difficult to find): https://mac.install.guide/ruby/index.html

Thanks! I use a Mac for work but Linux at home. Got it working in Linux with rvm in the end. Very much enjoying doing some rails after years of JS

Yes, Rails still has its charms :-)

I'm glad the installation guide was helpful. Here's the full guide for Rails:

https://learn-rails.com/install-rails-mac/index.html

Take look at the `$ rails new myapp --minimal` option that's new in Rails 6.1 It gives you Rails without all the extras. Kind of like a 2010 Rails.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#615

Post by macspoofing »

humanrebar wrote: post #606
macspoofing wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the point was that some things do not justify their complexity. Especially if you discount inertia. Again, can you provide an example? Because like you implied, tools like node.js and npm, were made with a purpose. They are professional tools made for professional programmers to solve commercial problems. They aren't made for beginners and novices to teach them about programming concepts. Their complexities…

It's a trivial example, but a valid one. Those sorts of "it works great as long as you remember..." things are complexity, often unneeded. There are more severe examples of this involving frameworks with assumptions being too hardcoded (or softcoded!) as well. Some are essential complexity, sure. But many aren't.

>It's a trivial example, but a valid one.

Oh come on. You're complaining about a function name (created decades ago) in a system level language as an example of 'needless complexity'. That's not complexity - that's just a quirky name kept around for backwards compatibility. By the way if you don't like 'creat' or find it difficult to use then don't use 'creat' use 'open' with the relevant flags. Any complexity around C programming does not come from this ... Honestly.

I have yet to see someone actually point out a good example of needless complexity in programming - something that the blog author is complaining about that apparently you agree with but cannot come up with a single reasonable example.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#616

Post by ba1uev »

I am currently working on something similar to what the OP wants!

NodeSnippets – a cross-platform snippet manager with a Node.js playground. It is in the final stage of development, so if you are curious about it, please leave your email on website below and I'll notify you when the app is available.

https://nodesnippets.com

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#617

Post by aaomidi »

axaxs wrote: post #557
aaomidi wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably should've held back. This is the exact type of behavior thats unwelcoming in this industry. You don't have to type to write programs. Many people don't. It's why applications that do visual programming have opened the way for AMAZING bursts of creativity. Everyone should be able to communicate with a computer. The more people that are the more likely it is were going to make fascinating things. Your elit…

Absolutely not. I'm not sure why programming is the one field people make a joke of. It doesn't happen in any other field that I'm aware of. Hear me out. Do you ever see ads for 'become a doctor in 6 weeks, land a job'? Or plumber? Or electrician? Or anything else? No, but you do for programming. Do you ever see people whining that being a medical doctor is too hard and confusing, and demand that everyone should just…

God I would hate to have this type of behavior as coworkers. I can't imagine what a "certification for programming" would even look like. Programming is a completely different field than others - it's exactly that type of difference that has made programming far more welcoming than others.

No one is denying that you're not going to be the best developer in a few days. But I welcome everyone learning the way they want to and how they want to, and for others in the industry helping them learn.

And for your example, I'd much rather hire someone who has worked in their garage with wood for a decade than someone who just got a certification to call themselves a professional carpenter right out of trade school.

And yes, you are literally trying to gatekeep because you're realizing the thing you've spent thousands of hours learning is actually not that difficult and is getting easier and easier every day.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#618

Post by DangitBobby »

antisol wrote: post #607
DangitBobby wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an excuse for being a dick.

I know right. The person who posted this article should have hit up a search engine before wasting all of our time. Very dickish behaviour.

Truly fantastic dialogue

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#619

Post by greggman3 »

im3w1l wrote: post #520
greggman3 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want the play the piano but don't want to put in the time. Answer "don't be lazy". I want the learn to dance but don't want to put the time. Response: "Don't be lazy". What is special about programming that should be easy where playing the piano or learning to draw well is not? Maybe it's just fundamentally hard? I'm not suggesting it can't be made more approachable for beginners and for small tasks but most non-tr…

> I want the play the piano I think this is not exactly the same. Tom is I want to X, but I don't want to learn Y. Consider > I want music at my party but I don't want to learn the piano Easy, just put on spotify > I want to compose, but I don't want to learn the piano Well there are many evolving tools for doing that without needing to learn the piano, such as sibelius.

Following that logic.

> I want an app to do X but I don't want to learn how

Just hire someone to make it for you

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#620

Post by krageon »

macspoofing wrote: post #335
krageon wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't the user-friendliness of the tools (many very friendly tools exist), it's the amount of energy the author is willing to invest (approximately none). When exposed to truly trivial tooling, the problem becomes a lack of practice in the type of thinking that leads to good programs. There we see that the core of the issue why programming isn't "easy" is that it's just not. It takes practice to get compu…

>We don't think this of math We do and we try every which way to make it 'natural' and 'easy', sometimes with vaunted social goals like stemming drop-out rates. The reality is, at some point, you just have to sit down, put your head down, and power through. Sometimes, like you alluded, there are no shortcuts. There are programming environments (sometimes even gamified) for learning, but if you want to use something t…

Perhaps this is a cultural difference then, efforts to make math 'natural' and 'easy' are not something my secondary education had. You could either do it or you could not and if you could not you were put in a class that had basically no math (or just some very simple math if you picked economics).
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