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First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

nytimes.com

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Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#11

Post by vaksel »

jmtame wrote: post #3

It's a nice start, but this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. This will be a difficult problem with certain majors. I've taken several economics classes, and you have to purchase a new book for the semester in order to get a key card inside of the book. This will let you activate an online account, which will open up Flash-based homework. This is all linked into the school's grading system. Many classes _require_ t…

Most teachers side with the students when it comes to books costing an outrageous amount. So most of them avoid feeding publisher's pocket books. i.e. When I was in college most teachers just uploaded copies of homework problems on blackboard, and never used any of that published based info. + all of the problems were based on material discussed in class, so you never had to buy the book in the first place.

There are obvious exceptions, usually when the teacher is the one who wrote the book, and wants to profit off his students. i.e. I had one class where the guy had us buy 3 books, 2 of which we never even used. Surprise, surprise they all had the teacher's name on the cover.

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#12

Post by akd »

huhtenberg wrote: post #6

Is the existing level of pricing justified at all ? I mean a $209 book does sound like it carries a huge margin.

"Justified" is a concept that exists only in your head. Yes, the most successful textbooks make millions of dollars for their publishers and authors (Paul Samuelson's Economics for example). The least successful ones lose lots of money. What do you mean by "justified"?

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#13

Post by willarson »

huhtenberg wrote: post #6

Is the existing level of pricing justified at all ? I mean a $209 book does sound like it carries a huge margin.

The problem is that the average textbook sells a small run of copies, and doesn't benefit from economies of scale. Unfortunately, it seems that the professors and the publishers both like the current system, and the students have very little influence on the process.

There are some solutions, but the incentives don't seem to be in place to encourage them. The best seems to be reducing the overall number of textbooks, allowing each one to have a larger run and thus to better benefit from economies of scale (and be cheaper to buy at the same profit margin for the producers). But to achieve that we would have to stop letting professors choose their own books, and professors are not known to appreciate being herded.

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#14

Post by Xichekolas »

vaksel wrote: post #11
jmtame wrote: post #3

It's a nice start, but this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. This will be a difficult problem with certain majors. I've taken several economics classes, and you have to purchase a new book for the semester in order to get a key card inside of the book. This will let you activate an online account, which will open up Flash-based homework. This is all linked into the school's grading system. Many classes _require_ t…

Most teachers side with the students when it comes to books costing an outrageous amount. So most of them avoid feeding publisher's pocket books. i.e. When I was in college most teachers just uploaded copies of homework problems on blackboard, and never used any of that published based info. + all of the problems were based on material discussed in class, so you never had to buy the book in the first place. There are…

When I went to college (2005 grad), almost all my textbooks were optional. A couple friends and I usually pooled our money and bought one to share, which was great for Midterms/Finals, since we studied together anyway. The books I actually kept were things like SICP, which were cheaper to begin with.

I wonder at what point the online editions of these books become so detailed that they compete with the University course itself. A lot of them already do all the grunt work for the Professor (giving quizzes/hw and grading them). All you have to do at that point is get accredited and make some kind of exam system and you have a substitute for the actual class.

$209 seems awfully pricey for a book, but not too bad for an intro course in Biology. And frankly, your intro courses are ripe to be taken over the net, because they are already given in anonymous lecture halls with 1000 people in them.

Imagine some student showing up in the Dean's office with her transcript from Prentice Hall, showing off her 4.0 in online courses and ready to dive into her major as a Junior.

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#15

Post by silencio »

lxbui wrote: post #7

My community college chooses books that cost $15-$20, it was nice. Then at the University levels they hit me with $200 books. As for new editions, I understand that Biology changes frequently, and the books might need to be changed periodically, but classes like Calc I shouldn't be updated every other year.

Unless you're in pretty advanced bio classes, it doesn't change every year like the textbook editions suggest.

Also I have had community college classes where the text cost upwards of $200. I've also had classes where the used book cost $5 and the prof was willing to buy it herself if you couldn't afford even $5...

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#16

Post by silencio »

jmtame wrote: post #3

It's a nice start, but this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. This will be a difficult problem with certain majors. I've taken several economics classes, and you have to purchase a new book for the semester in order to get a key card inside of the book. This will let you activate an online account, which will open up Flash-based homework. This is all linked into the school's grading system. Many classes _require_ t…

I've had that happen with econ, math and some other classes...and usually instead of buying the book to get the code you had the option of just paying for the online access. Like, the book would be $90 with the code, but the code itself would be $20 you can pay with a credit card (i.e. if you bought the book used for, say, $40, and you wanted just the online access).

I actually haven't had a class where the book was the only way you could get access to that.

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#17

Post by silencio »

Xichekolas wrote: post #14
vaksel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most teachers side with the students when it comes to books costing an outrageous amount. So most of them avoid feeding publisher's pocket books. i.e. When I was in college most teachers just uploaded copies of homework problems on blackboard, and never used any of that published based info. + all of the problems were based on material discussed in class, so you never had to buy the book in the first place. There are…

When I went to college (2005 grad), almost all my textbooks were optional. A couple friends and I usually pooled our money and bought one to share, which was great for Midterms/Finals, since we studied together anyway. The books I actually kept were things like SICP, which were cheaper to begin with. I wonder at what point the online editions of these books become so detailed that they compete with the University cou…

I'm looking into transferring to a university to finish my BSc in computer science (dropped out of HS, went to a community college), and all the ones I've looked into usually had some sort of cap on the number and type of online classes you were allowed to take. Unfortunately. I would not mind taking nothing but online classes for most intro classes where hands-on stuff was either not necessary (like..CS?) or where you only had to actually show up to class for a lab (like chem, bio, anatomy..).

That being said, I took online classes because it let me slack off and then still get an A in the class, but it actually took more effort to get the A because of the extra work to prove I wasn't just showing up to take exams. But the timing was more convenient for me. Sooo..

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#18

Post by noonespecial »

jmtame wrote: post #3

It's a nice start, but this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. This will be a difficult problem with certain majors. I've taken several economics classes, and you have to purchase a new book for the semester in order to get a key card inside of the book. This will let you activate an online account, which will open up Flash-based homework. This is all linked into the school's grading system. Many classes _require_ t…

Keycard? Seriously?

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

Here we come.

Re: First It Was Song Downloads. Now It’s Organic Chemistry.

#19

Post by aneesh »

This is why book publishers are so excited about textbooks being distributed on the Kindle (or similar device). It virtually eliminates the used book market. Of course, if the book is just static content, it's much easier to pirate in electronic form than paper form.
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