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What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

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Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#51

Post by rms »

Hexstream wrote: post #15
aswanson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't bait him. His SEO technique is to spam more popular blogs/forums with links back to his, and to get into these types of arguments, producing more link opportunities for him. Worse, we may get more of his constituency moving in. (There goes the neighborhood). The best method to protect the site from being inundated with more stuff like this is to try to stay as hacker-focused as possible, perhaps relegating the…

I'm assuming if your comment has negative karma its links are necessarily nofollowed? edit: Then the strategy aswanson alleges occam is pursuing is totally misguided. Maybe a little note on the bottom of the comment box that all links are nofollowed would prevent any further such attempts.

Nofollowing isn't enough to stop determined SEOs with lots of time on their hands. A nofollow link is still decidedly better than no link at all, because it gets a couple of clicks of traffic and maybe, maybe will be picked up by someone else as a follow link.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#52

Post by gruseom »

gojomo wrote: post #25
occam wrote: post #4

"... one of the lowest percentages of immigrants of any Western European country: only two percent of its 5.2 million residents. And a substantial fraction of Finland's immigrants consist of spouses of Finns, Finnish-speaking citizens of Russia (there are pockets of Finnish-speakers throughout the forests of northern Russia), Estonians, whose Uralic language is closest to Finnish, and Swedes (Swedish is the second of…

I'm pro-immigration, in the classic "the more the merrier" tradition of those with confidence in both markets and human innovation. But to be intellectually honest, we have to acknowledge that immigrants of different languages, cultures, and economic backgrounds will bring many 'average' statistics of education (and health, etc.) down. This is even true if the immigration is a net-benefit to both natives and newcomer…

I downvoted it, not because of political correctness, but because it seemed like linkbait. The account was only hours old and the post expressed no view of its own.

Also, the reference to "Third World" immigrants struck me as gratuitous, and suggestive in a negative way.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#53

Post by aswanson »

rms wrote: post #50
aswanson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...would prevent any further such attempts. Presuming he is smart enough to understand the implications.

>perhaps relegating the race/gender/IQ trifecta to the same status as religion and political discussion, or to accept the likely degradation in discussion. I'd prefer to accept the degradation. "X racial subgroup is better/worse in some way than y racial subgroup" is one of the unnamed Things You Can't Say and I see no need to censor it here, even if the discussion makes me uncomfortable.

Right, sweeping it under the table is never a good idea, but I don't know what else can be said about it that hasn't been beaten to all hell and back here and everywhere else. It's not like opinions are going to change, and I, for one, get nothing out of it.

It is informative to know how other people think about these things, so you have a point. I do worry, though, about what type of people will be attracted here by this type of meme.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#54

Post by [deleted] »

Alex3917 wrote: post #41
gojomo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro-immigration, in the classic "the more the merrier" tradition of those with confidence in both markets and human innovation. But to be intellectually honest, we have to acknowledge that immigrants of different languages, cultures, and economic backgrounds will bring many 'average' statistics of education (and health, etc.) down. This is even true if the immigration is a net-benefit to both natives and newcomer…

"the massive downvoting of the parent comment is a dishonest enforcement of political correctness." I don't read Sailer's blog, but from what I understand it's mainly devoted to proving that African-Americans have lower IQs because of inferior genetics. Now you might say, well if this really is true, then wouldn't denying it be intellectually dishonest? Here's the thing though. The black-white IQ gap has been almost…

[deleted]

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#55

Post by ericwan »

pg wrote: post #16
enra wrote: post #9

I'm Finnish and I would say "I don't know". Article paints quite a rosy picture which isn't necessary true. Finnish schools(elementary to high school) are very boring. There are almost no other activities, no special classes, no school sports(only p.e. for everybody), no advanced classes and teaching is mostly done with books, paper and board. Teachers maybe still care little bit about there students and think the ma…

There are almost no other activities, no special classes, no school sports (only p.e. for everybody), no advanced classes and teaching is mostly done with books, paper and board. Maybe this is good.

agree except the sports part.

most of the discussion are of low quality and can be done with a smarter audience on HN or some other newsgroups.

But sports teams are good. it really encourages self-discipline, work ethics, and a competitive spirit.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#56

Post by rkts »

Alex3917 wrote: post #41
gojomo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro-immigration, in the classic "the more the merrier" tradition of those with confidence in both markets and human innovation. But to be intellectually honest, we have to acknowledge that immigrants of different languages, cultures, and economic backgrounds will bring many 'average' statistics of education (and health, etc.) down. This is even true if the immigration is a net-benefit to both natives and newcomer…

"the massive downvoting of the parent comment is a dishonest enforcement of political correctness." I don't read Sailer's blog, but from what I understand it's mainly devoted to proving that African-Americans have lower IQs because of inferior genetics. Now you might say, well if this really is true, then wouldn't denying it be intellectually dishonest? Here's the thing though. The black-white IQ gap has been almost…

> it's mainly devoted to proving that African-Americans have lower IQs because of inferior genetics

No, it isn't.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#58

Post by nazgulnarsil »

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it probably has something to do with culture. a culture that promotes a education is going to churn out more curious, creative people. And i don't mean "stay in school kids" commercials, I mean in all the unspoken assumptions about the world that are communicated from parents and other authority figures from a young age. You can't fake enthusiasm about education. The U.S. currently does not have it, so of course kids are smart enough to pick up on this and place education further down their priority list.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#59

Post by gojomo »

Alex3917 wrote: post #41
gojomo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro-immigration, in the classic "the more the merrier" tradition of those with confidence in both markets and human innovation. But to be intellectually honest, we have to acknowledge that immigrants of different languages, cultures, and economic backgrounds will bring many 'average' statistics of education (and health, etc.) down. This is even true if the immigration is a net-benefit to both natives and newcomer…

"the massive downvoting of the parent comment is a dishonest enforcement of political correctness." I don't read Sailer's blog, but from what I understand it's mainly devoted to proving that African-Americans have lower IQs because of inferior genetics. Now you might say, well if this really is true, then wouldn't denying it be intellectually dishonest? Here's the thing though. The black-white IQ gap has been almost…

Sailer's other writings are no good reason to downvote the factual, relevant excerpt above from user 'occam'.

And regarding those other writings, do you think you can give a fair summary, and a convincing refutation, when you haven't read them?

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#60

Post by occam »

aswanson wrote: post #10
martythemaniak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, as if there weren't enough populist demagogues blaming every problem on immigrants already, now we have to put up with you here on HN. http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/snapshot/sf011210.htm Have a look at the rankings at the bottom, and then explain why Canada, with about 3-4 times more immigration per capita, outscores the US.

Don't bait him. His SEO technique is to spam more popular blogs/forums with links back to his, and to get into these types of arguments, producing more link opportunities for him. Worse, we may get more of his constituency moving in. (There goes the neighborhood). The best method to protect the site from being inundated with more stuff like this is to try to stay as hacker-focused as possible, perhaps relegating the…

Surely there is a technological solution to this. Perhaps a thought purifier?
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