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Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#311

Post by myownpetard »

edmundsauto wrote: post #261
moate wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you view the Republican platform as being? What specifically is he wrong about?

OP is wrong about unrestricted access to all weapons. And not all Republicans are anti-abortion, although that is a big part of their platform due to the control it gives over evangelicals. (That is to say, I think if there is a schism, the more centric version of the party would not be anti-abortion.) Also, white nationalism is only embraced by a small percentage of the party. It's not really part of their platform,…

> whose primary concern is one of...

I'm not saying that all Republicans are white nationalist and anti-abortion but I haven't met a Republican whose primary political concern wasn't one of the issues I listed.

And everybody I've met whose primary issue is one of those that I listed has been Republican.

The vast majority of my extended family, whom I love, is Republican. There isn't some great mystery to understanding their political motivations.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#312

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #175

From personal experience, I can say working in a closed shop UFCW grocery store was better on almost every level than when I worked in a non-union grocery store. I count that as a positive experience but I've also seen unions that are little more than extortion rackets. There's one particular union active in my area that protests any job site where they wanted their members hired exclusively and didn't get their way.…

I think the fair solution is to just evaluate wages of executives vs average of lower level employees. If it's disproportionately higher than average, then unionization should be lawful. If it's not, then it should be illegal.

The point I'm getting at is most of the wages that could go to employees go to executives. Not even to the board or funneled back into the company for investment. Some businesses are fair and obviously pay the CEO fair compensation package. But not egregious ones like 100x the lowest paid employee or even higher. That's just flat out absurd then at that point and clearly someone can't stand not being able to compete in a worthless yacht race or some bourgeoisie garbage.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#313

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

maxerickson wrote: post #42
oarabbus_ wrote: post #7

To be honest I find it much more likely Amazon would just shut down the Bessemer, Alabama warehouse, terminate the employment of any workers who joined the union, and open a new warehouse within a 50 mile radius of the current one. edit: since there are labor law repercussions to terminate the unionized workers, they'd likely just shut down the plant in its entirety.

My understanding is that it would be illegal to do that under Federal labor law (they can't punish the workers that joined the union for joining the union).

It's called a blacklist

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#314

Post by ibudiallo »

WalterBright wrote: post #202
ibudiallo wrote: post #64

Unions were proponents for worker safety, fair wages, anti-discrimination. They are the reason why such thing as OSHA exists today. They are the reason some laws were passed to protect workers in the US. But once these mandates became law, corporations used the arguments of "why do we need unions if the law already protects workers?" This and following Reagan's firing of the air traffic controllers changed the image…

> Reagan's firing of the air traffic controllers It was illegal for the controllers to strike.

Unless I'm missing something obvious, striking is the only leverage a union has. If striking is illegal, what's their leverage?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#315

Post by myownpetard »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #222
myownpetard wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic Party is too large of an umbrella these days. Anybody whose primary concerns are among fiscal responsibility/the deficit, public education, effective foreign policy, civil rights, human rights, political corruption, science based public health/policy, climate change, domestic extremism, an independent judiciary etc. has moved into the democratic party. The Republican Party is for people whose primary c…

Have you ever talked to a single Republican? You’re way off base, especially with the race baiting.

Yes, many. I'm not saying that all Republicans are all of those things, just that those are the coalitions that make up the current Republican Party.

Did I miss a Republican Party coalition from my list?

But this is also I reason why I think ranked-choice voting is so compelling. I've met Republicans who essentially only vote Republican because they want to defend their 2nd amendment right but otherwise would be much more likely to support left-wing economic causes. But the way policies are bundled in our two parties they are forced to vote according to their primary concern.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#316

Post by [deleted] »

DataSceince123 wrote: post #173
legitster wrote: post #9

I have to imagine unions have a bit of an uphill battle right now, they took some major black eyes in 2020: - Police unions openly declaring war on their own citizens - Teachers unions causing general chaos in school reopening plans I understand that public sector unions are a different beast, but purely from an optics perspective I have to imagine public sentiment for unions can't be very high right now.

1) The police need to be defunded and disbanded, this will take care of problems within unions of a corrupt institution 2) Teachers were right not going back to school, this is the deadliest pandemic in the history of the united states and to expect teachers to work is a crime. Therefore the union did its job

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#317

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

moate wrote: post #231
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people want competition on a union? They don't work like corporations - competition weakens them. I think this fundamentally misunderstands the purpose and function of a union.

So they can pose hypothetical arguments about the corruption of the as-yet unformed union in an effort to undermine support for it. "What if the union is BAD!? We should consider other things before we lock ourselves into a democratic power-structure that allows greater agency for the laboring class against management because reasons !"

More like so you can appease the people with those worries. Worried about these issues? Here's a safety valve. One look at any thread about unions and you can see a significant number of people have these worries, so why not give them some choices?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#318

Post by myownpetard »

myownpetard wrote: post #315
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever talked to a single Republican? You’re way off base, especially with the race baiting.

Yes, many. I'm not saying that all Republicans are all of those things, just that those are the coalitions that make up the current Republican Party. Did I miss a Republican Party coalition from my list? But this is also I reason why I think ranked-choice voting is so compelling. I've met Republicans who essentially only vote Republican because they want to defend their 2nd amendment right but otherwise would be much…

Likewise there are a lot of working class Christians who would be strong allies in a labor movement but if that movement is inextricably linked to a pro-choice party it is a non-starter for them.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#319

Post by random5634 »

j_walter wrote: post #229
random5634 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually know a bit about the german union model. A couple of factors - the overall labor force is pretty highly educated and skilled - so less free riding overall. Strong social safety net - so folks not suited to a job have a place to land with health care etc. a MUCH more cooperate relationship with management -> the unions in Germany at least also want productivity / common sense stuff. In the US, you can have…

When I refer to the European model I'm probably talking about the German model. Many years ago the articles I was reading had been going over the VW union so it was likely Germany. The cooperation part and inefficiencies you mention are exactly the problem. Here in the US the union and company are enemies that battle each other...and like you say illogical rules that just benefit the union.

That's a bit of a special case as well - historically overall good relationship even when there were cuts / restructuring in 2017.

Situation is very different in places like greece / italy / france even with much more militant unions and more protectionism for sectors. So it's def not EU wide.

---

“I cannot complain about the cooperation with the works council,” VW brand chief executive Herbert Diess said at a news conference, citing “very constructive” dealings with the unions.

VW’s mass-market brand has been undergoing heavy restructuring since it agreed with the works council on plans to cut 3.7 billion euros ($4.41 billion) of costs per year from 2020 and slash 23,000 jobs in Germany via natural attrition.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#320

Post by Frondo »

aerosmile wrote: post #59
Frondo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one comment on this: > Teachers unions may care more about teachers ... That's precisely the point of a union. It's an organization to protect its members. It's the purpose of the school system overall, including principals, school boards, and so on, to care about teaching kids.

The point that the OP is making is that the negative propaganda against unions is not just entirely made up, but also something that many people with kids in school have experienced first-hand. This does factor in when that same parent then goes to their workplace and is pitched to form/join a union. I am not saying they won't agree to it, but they might remember the negative aspects of dealing with the concept of a…

You can find a million more horror stories related to corporations abusing workers than you can of unions keeping bad workers employed, yet one of these types of organizations is always under an existential attack.

If I didn't know about the sustained US corporate anti-union messaging as a thing, I might wonder why that is.

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