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Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

sciencemag.org

321–330 of 335 posts

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral and legal are different. I think Sci-Hub is ethical. I'm under no illusions that this somehow makes it legal. Sci-Hub explicitly bills itself as a "pirate website." Twitter's rules explicitly ban both copyright violation and illegal activities. Therefore Sci-Hub is violation of Twitter's rules. Twitter may well be very selective in their enforcement, but the fact that Sci-Hub is violating Twitter's rules is not…

Plenty of derivative creation (ex: meme) probably has the copyright issue. Should twitter ban them all?

Meme falls under fair use usually.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point here is to expand the number of social media sites from the handful we have to several more rather than collapsing them into a single state-owned entity. And, we can't just snap our fingers to make that happen. True competition comes from separately owned, competing services.

A superior outcome would be OTT peer-to-peer communication, with small groups of peers forming their own mini-networks potentially linking with others if there is mutual interest. The massive groups that form via today's internet do not reflect human nature in the real world. People usually are only part of small groups, family, friends, colleagues, teammates, etc. People usually keep the groups isolated from one ano…

Maybe. Make it happen and let's see but I wouldn't put money on that. Everyone can't hold the ledger like btc

It's not a conspiracy that a handful of platforms dominate it's simply flawed regulation targeting the wrong incentives.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#323

Twitter has no business inserting itself into a dispute between Elbakyan and Elsevier et al. Few people would have issues if Twitter shut down the Sci-Hub account after they received a valid court order, but a private monopolist cannot be trusted to be the arbiter of what is permitted speech.

Why should we FORCE twitter to publish the speech of someone they don't want to publish? Doesn't that itself infringe on free speech?

It's not about forcing Twitter, it's about how Twitter wants to be framed.

As a platform, it bears no responsibility over what's published on it as long as it complies with any court orders to remove illegal content. But it cannot censor or editorialize content.

If it does, it becomes a media outlet and has responsibility over all content published on Twitter, (which doesn't scale very well).

Jack wants to have the best of both worlds. The power to censor whatever he doesn't like, with 0 responsibility over the content he doesn't care about.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#325
post #178

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Just because you have the legal right to do something doesn't mean you should do it or that you should be immune to criticism for doing it. For example, in an at-will employment state, an employer can legally fire you for looking at them funny. No one would argue that an employer shouldn't have the right to terminate an employee if they were bad for the company, nor would anyone object to the employer being able to d…

Seems like a bad analogy. I would absolutely argue an employer shouldn't be allowed to fire you for any reason of their choosing

Unfortunately, the law in many (all?) states is that employment is “at will”. If your boss doesn’t like the color of your hair, they can fire you on the spot. Doesn’t mean they will, but they can as long as it’s not for a “protected class” reason (as in, they can’t fire you for your race). The justification for “at will” employment is that your duties to the company are also “at will.” If you want, you’re free to walk out the front door on your break and never come back.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites are not common carriers. > What is their justifcation for suspension. I don't see why they should need a justification. Just because something is popular doesn't mean people should be entitled to it. It makes no sense that an arbitrary MAU count suddenly rescinds the property rights of the people who pay money to keep the servers running, as well as to develop and maintain the software. Further, I don't see…

> Suddenly, nobody seems to care that a conservative competitor to AWS is getting a huge account, shouldn't that be pereceived as a good thing? Why are the people who get banned so insistent on using services they claim are inherently unfair to them? Why not support companies that share your values? Just spitballing here, but doesn't it seem that with the way things are going, Twitter/Facebook will become a silo for…

Twitter/Facebook will become a silo for those who hold more left-leaning views and Parler/Gab will become a silo for those with more right-leaning views

Most right leaning politicians have no problem at all being active on Twitter and Facebook and the vast majority of people who describe themselves as "more right-leaning" want absolutely nothing to do with the sort of people or ideologies that where prevalent on Parler.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#327

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> This is a logical fallacy and the equivalent of saying 'you are welcome to practice free speech, in this here sound-proofed room'. No, it's saying you're welcome to practice free speech, you just can't borrow my megaphone to do it. How hard is this to understand? You are not entitled to use other people's property without their consent. If twitter was actually the only way to communicate with people on the internet…

Twitter+FB+ a single-digit handful of other platforms are the only mechanisms for a private individual to share an idea and have it spread to a wide audience. Yes, you can make your own blog and post whatever you like on it (actually these days even that is questionable with cloud vendors deplatforming blogs they don't like), but the chances of your speech reaching a wide audience are millions of times smaller than i…

> Twitter+FB+ a single-digit handful of other platforms are the only mechanisms for a private individual to share an idea and have it spread to a wide audience.

Bullshit. They're merely the easiest. People were sharing ideas far and wide long before these companies came into existence. You have a right to free speech, no one is required to help you spread it.

> A cafe owner refusing service to an individual is not comparable to a global-scale speech platform selectively suppressing ideas that the owner doesn't like from reaching a wide audience.

Maybe not, but I've yet to see a good argument for why being a global scale speech platform inherently means that anyone has a right to tell Twitter who they can and cannot ban.

Again, I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for Twitter, I'm just saying that those consequences should be social, not legal.

I feel like the people here are arguing that the reason they should face legal consequences isn't that they've done anything illegal or that necessarily should be illegal, only that they don't think social consequences will work and they can't stand the idea that other people might not care as much about it as they do.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#328
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of derivative creation (ex: meme) probably has the copyright issue. Should twitter ban them all?

Meme falls under fair use usually.

They really don't. e.g. distracted boyfriend meme is definitely copyrighted, just adding text on it does not make it fair use.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#329
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect even in the translation, neither "neighbor" nor "false witness" are meant in the way you are inferring. It should be probably read something like : don't swear to untrue things about your countrymen.

That's what I meant but I could have been less terse. It probably refers to the tribe of the Israelites so clan is probably closer than countrymen.

Ah, fair I misread you.

Re: Twitter shuts down account of Sci-Hub

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These massive websites/broadcast SMS cannot have it both ways. They cannot seek the protections of being "critical infrastructure" of any sort, common carrier, public forum, etc. and then, at the same time, disable user accounts for any reason just like any other private website. They have to pick one or the other. The arguments I am seeing online are folks who have chosen one or the other and are arguing from their…

Websites are not common carriers. > What is their justifcation for suspension. I don't see why they should need a justification. Just because something is popular doesn't mean people should be entitled to it. It makes no sense that an arbitrary MAU count suddenly rescinds the property rights of the people who pay money to keep the servers running, as well as to develop and maintain the software. Further, I don't see…

> Just because something is popular doesn't mean people should be entitled to it.

We have generally acknowledged that things that are important to everyone and are monopolized need to be regulated.

Social media is practically the only effective way to participate in the global community. The same is true, although with decreasing necessity, in more localized communities.

Facebook and Twitter have massively altered the way that people engage with other people, businesses, even the government. They took public discourse and monetized it. That's fine, but they now have to deal with the implications of being the keepers of public discourse, and I think a reasonable stipulation for allowing them to monetize that is that they cannot bar someone from participating without a very good justification that isn't "lol our ToS allows us to cut you off whenever we want, and take your first born child".

> speaking economically when these large platforms boot people off it actually increases competition and decreases their dominance because it creates a market opportunity for competitors, exactly like what happened with Parler. Suddenly, nobody seems to care that a conservative competitor to AWS is getting a huge account, shouldn't that be pereceived as a good thing?

Sure, and what happened to them? It's a little ironic to argue that booting people off of their platform increases competition and then mention their new competitor that was immediately wiped off the face of the internet.

I think Parler attracted a lot of extremists. That's partially their own fault with their poor moderation, but it's also a reflection that Twitter has so dominated the marketplace that your only customers as a new social media site are going to be nutjobs. It has strong anti-competitive effects. The community is a huge part of a social media site. Crazy users poison the community, ensuring that the brand is tainted and not a threat to Twitter.

> Why are the people who get banned so insistent on using services they claim are inherently unfair to them? Why not support companies that share your values?

Because you'd be better off writing it on bathroom stalls.

Because there is no meaningful competitor. Even Parler was tiny by social media standards, and it's probably dead now.

Because your friends and family want to use Twitter, and probably won't switch, so you have to use Twitter and Facebook.

Because Facebook and Twitter have spent so long maximizing engagement that people barely bother looking for other sources of news and information.

I'm not a huge fan of Parler or the way it was run. It does seem damning that the only app that threatened to take some of Twitter's market share was immediately scrubbed off the internet. I don't think ISIS material gets completely wiped off the face of the internet that fast.

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