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Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

reuters.com

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Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#61

Post by leppr »

spongepoc wrote: post #18
Shadonototro wrote: post #5

bitcoin solves nothing, worse it empower the "wanting to become millionaire overnight" syndrome that plagues our society this world is horrible when you look into the details, working and helping other people is not rewarded at all profiting from other people is what best people can do to have a better time on this planet

The market economy in fact solves many problems of 'helping other people' that we have just become so used to that we don't appreciate its complexity. The fact that food is produced in abundance and is distributed in time to population centres for convenient consumption is a marvel of the modern world. And we're only getting better at it over time. That's helping people.

The current Bitcoin narrative and actual usage does nothing for the "market economy" though. It might have some indirect positive effects by forcing governments to adopt more open policies lest they suffer from capital flight and forming of parallel economies, but that's about it. Decentralized stablecoins on the other hand have great potential to amplify the free market economy.

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#62

Post by gruez »

imtringued wrote: post #49
Mauricebranagh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I believe the Swedish central bank has thought about you you could apply -ve interest rates to bank accounts as Sweden is so massively a non cash society.

I wonder about that. In theory it means you can have interest rates that are well below 0% (think of -2% or worse). The idea behind negative interest rates is that there is work to be done that cannot be financed at a 0% interest rate and that the interest rate has to be even lower. If you assume 2% bank fees and a -3% interest rate it would be possible for banks to hand out -1% loans and that would allow financially…

>because you cannot default by definition. Your principal will shrink even if you do nothing.

That's not what default means. If you stop making monthly payments, you're in default. From wikipedia:

> Default may refer to: Default (finance), failure to satisfy the terms of a loan obligation or failure to pay back a loan

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#63

Post by bjeds »

asiachick wrote: post #54
bjeds wrote: post #15

As a Swedish person I don't see the point at all: Why would I want to use this? I would rather have a decentralized system of various banks and global companies (Mastercard, Visa, etc) track my transactions and spread out that risk, instead of one single state actor. I could also use, you know, cash. Digital cash is first and foremost an instrument for new ways to do monetary policy, as more countries (like Sweden an…

What does "heading towards a Japanese situation" mean?

I was thinking of the long period of slow economic growth, long period of low interest rates, "chronic deflation", and few tools left by central banks to stimulate the economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)#Legacy

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#64

Post by AnonC »

asiachick wrote: post #54
bjeds wrote: post #15

As a Swedish person I don't see the point at all: Why would I want to use this? I would rather have a decentralized system of various banks and global companies (Mastercard, Visa, etc) track my transactions and spread out that risk, instead of one single state actor. I could also use, you know, cash. Digital cash is first and foremost an instrument for new ways to do monetary policy, as more countries (like Sweden an…

What does "heading towards a Japanese situation" mean?

A deflationary situation where, to put it in one way, the value of money increases as time passes (as opposed to inflation where the value of money erodes over time). Central banks would then try to set negative interest rates so that any (digital) money one holds can be continuously reduced to incentivize spending rather than saving.

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#65

Post by Mauricebranagh »

imtringued wrote: post #49
Mauricebranagh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I believe the Swedish central bank has thought about you you could apply -ve interest rates to bank accounts as Sweden is so massively a non cash society.

I wonder about that. In theory it means you can have interest rates that are well below 0% (think of -2% or worse). The idea behind negative interest rates is that there is work to be done that cannot be financed at a 0% interest rate and that the interest rate has to be even lower. If you assume 2% bank fees and a -3% interest rate it would be possible for banks to hand out -1% loans and that would allow financially…

No they where talking about taking the -ve interest from the bank accounts

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#66

Post by pxtail »

Shadonototro wrote: post #5

bitcoin solves nothing, worse it empower the "wanting to become millionaire overnight" syndrome that plagues our society this world is horrible when you look into the details, working and helping other people is not rewarded at all profiting from other people is what best people can do to have a better time on this planet

Well, I'm not sure about Bitcoin but in general cryptocurrency has a purpose. I know I'm naive in this regard but only recent events with private companies banning people from communication channels in some way opened my eyes.

If you look closely there is no way to send or receive digital payment without using a private company service, which in turn can terminate it's services for you for arbitrary reasons, other people will just shrug and say it's a private company.

Physical currency right now has unique abilities not mirrored by any digital equivalent and allows one to survive and exchange money p2p even if ones name will be blacklisted by private companies for some reason. Yes, probability of this kind of event could be incredibly low but it's still there and I believe that it can increase with various attempts to build "credit score" systems.

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#67

Post by nyolfen »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #55
spongepoc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market economy in fact solves many problems of 'helping other people' that we have just become so used to that we don't appreciate its complexity. The fact that food is produced in abundance and is distributed in time to population centres for convenient consumption is a marvel of the modern world. And we're only getting better at it over time. That's helping people.

"That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live. You might be conflating "helping people" with "convenience" whereas what you truly want to say that "market economy" has made products/services "affordable". But, that's, again, not an inclusive statement. Markets only offer…

> "That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live.

this is less true than it has ever been in human history; the only places with true famines in the modern world are those cut off from global markets by war, or dysfunctional states that are cut off from global markets like NK. your statement is either willful blindness or some kind of bone-deep cynicism -- "nothing good has happened because bad things still exist".

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#68

Post by CaptArmchair »

nyolfen wrote: post #67
CaptArmchair wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live. You might be conflating "helping people" with "convenience" whereas what you truly want to say that "market economy" has made products/services "affordable". But, that's, again, not an inclusive statement. Markets only offer…

> "That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live. this is less true than it has ever been in human history; the only places with true famines in the modern world are those cut off from global markets by war, or dysfunctional states that are cut off from global markets lik…

> true famines

Beware of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

Here's some sources about food insecurity in the United States:

[1] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-... [2] https://time.com/4477157/hunger-america-history/ [3] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/short-history-snap [4] https://www.nap.edu/read/11578/chapter/4 [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

I could continue on. There are entire libraries filled by countless research and public policy programs with studies and monographs on the subject.

And that's just the United States.

Hunger is a massive issue anywhere in the world. And I will bring this to the table as an established fact whenever someone praises the virtues of a concept as vaguely defined as "market economics" while omitting the realities.

> your statement is either willful blindness or some kind of bone-deep cynicism

I'm unwilling to discuss this any further having being called "blind" and "cynic".

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#69

Post by [deleted] »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #68
nyolfen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live. this is less true than it has ever been in human history; the only places with true famines in the modern world are those cut off from global markets by war, or dysfunctional states that are cut off from global markets lik…

> true famines Beware of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Here's some sources about food insecurity in the United States: [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-... [2] https://time.com/4477157/hunger-america-history/ [3] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/short-history-snap [4] https://www.nap.edu/read/11578/chapter/4 [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States I could continue o…

[deleted]

Re: Swedish bankers face identity crisis over digital currency plans

#70

Post by nyolfen »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #68
nyolfen wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "That's helping people" doesn't really say anything. It's extremely vague. Moreover, it's clear that not everyone helped since abject poverty and hunger are a thing, regardless of where you live. this is less true than it has ever been in human history; the only places with true famines in the modern world are those cut off from global markets by war, or dysfunctional states that are cut off from global markets lik…

> true famines Beware of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Here's some sources about food insecurity in the United States: [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/27/912486921/food-insecurity-in-... [2] https://time.com/4477157/hunger-america-history/ [3] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/short-history-snap [4] https://www.nap.edu/read/11578/chapter/4 [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States I could continue o…

> "nothing good has happened because bad things still exist"

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=deaths+by+starvatio...

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