Why cancer cells waste so much energy • Hacker News Board

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#41

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #14

inglor_cz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a relatively new theory saying that malignant, metastatic cancer cells behave like single cell organisms, and that cancer basically represents an unwanted return to our genetic roots; multicellular organisms used to be single cell organisms a billion years ago and the original genes might carry on within our DNA until today. But they should be switched off. Once they are switched on, the cells will stop coop…

> There is a relatively new theory saying that malignant, metastatic cancer cells behave like single cell organisms, This is the track they are on, but given how shortlived they are, they never get the chance to do much evolution. They only have time to learn a few tricks. Simple things like turning stuff of or up/downregulating existing systems. It's a strange step to "cannot help but switch to the previous single-c…

[deleted]

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#42

Post by Blikkentrekker » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #27

whalesalad wrote: post #19

I’m curious to see how fasting might influence cancer treatment. I know in other parts of the world it is seen as a legitimate treatment, while also potentially considered to be a hippy dippy homeopathic treatment. Anecdotally it seems you can starve certain cancers to death pretty easily by severely limiting your caloric intake. I sense a relationship between that and this study.

From a non-medical professional's perspective it doesn't seem that strange. Medical treatments for cancer include "let's slowly irradiate you and hope the cancer dies first" and "let's slowly poison you and hope the cancer dies first". "let's slowly starve you to death and hope the cancer dies first" doesn't seem all that different.

Such treatments attempt to concentrate the radiation and poison where the cancer is, however.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#43

Post by dimitrios1 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

bfieidhbrjr wrote: post #5

YSK, cancer as a metabolic disease, and tripping over the truth, are excellent books about this, and why we got cancer wrong since watson and crick.

So I know that Gundry's book "Plant Paradox" is probably rife with some scientific hyperbole, but it's enticing for me to at least follow a system with this principle in mind: that you want to essentially mellow out your metabolism.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#44

Post by majkinetor » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #11

deskamess wrote: post #2

So the cancer cells went with the non-blocking, albeit slower algorithm. With aerobic, pipelines could get filled with ATP and end up blocking the essential NAD+. So the optimization was a loosely decoupled slower fermentation process over the faster aerobic process. Back pressure avoided and all that. So tempting to go with analogies we are familiar with.

There is a relatively new theory saying that malignant, metastatic cancer cells behave like single cell organisms, and that cancer basically represents an unwanted return to our genetic roots; multicellular organisms used to be single cell organisms a billion years ago and the original genes might carry on within our DNA until today. But they should be switched off. Once they are switched on, the cells will stop coop…

Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes of ancient ancestors.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Cancer-tumors-as-Metaz...

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#45

Post by jaywalk » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

captaincrunch wrote: post #33

whalesalad wrote: post #19

I’m curious to see how fasting might influence cancer treatment. I know in other parts of the world it is seen as a legitimate treatment, while also potentially considered to be a hippy dippy homeopathic treatment. Anecdotally it seems you can starve certain cancers to death pretty easily by severely limiting your caloric intake. I sense a relationship between that and this study.

No medical experience, other than as a patient... however I read the body can live up to two months without food (but with adequate water). If you managed to survive longer than the cancer cells, wouldn't they just come back after defeat? Doesn't this stem from DNA?

Same disclaimer as you on expertise, but cancer basically comes from one mutation when a cell divides that causes it to start dividing out of control. So if you manage to starve all of those out of control cells to death, you've eradicated the cancer. The caveat is that you've got to kill _all_ of the cells, not just most of them.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#46

Post by sjg007 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #19

I’m curious to see how fasting might influence cancer treatment. I know in other parts of the world it is seen as a legitimate treatment, while also potentially considered to be a hippy dippy homeopathic treatment. Anecdotally it seems you can starve certain cancers to death pretty easily by severely limiting your caloric intake. I sense a relationship between that and this study.

There's some evidence it is beneficial and protects healthy cells from chemotherapy and radiation. Fasting and a keto diet force the body to use fatty acid metabolism.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#47

Post by jaywalk » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

simplemen wrote: post #29

dplgk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This didn't work for Steve Jobs

He wasn't fasting, he was on fruits diet.

Yeah, and he also had a highly treatable form of cancer and access to the best medical care in the world. Unfortunately his arrogance got the best of him.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#48

Post by dplgk » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:03 PM UTC

simplemen wrote: post #29

dplgk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This didn't work for Steve Jobs

He wasn't fasting, he was on fruits diet.

He drank carrot juice which I'd say is severely limiting your caloric intake.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#49

Post by excannuck » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #42

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a non-medical professional's perspective it doesn't seem that strange. Medical treatments for cancer include "let's slowly irradiate you and hope the cancer dies first" and "let's slowly poison you and hope the cancer dies first". "let's slowly starve you to death and hope the cancer dies first" doesn't seem all that different.

Such treatments attempt to concentrate the radiation and poison where the cancer is, however.

Insofar as cancer cells need more energy, starvation is also specific.

Re: Why cancer cells waste so much energy

#50

Post by majkinetor » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #19

I’m curious to see how fasting might influence cancer treatment. I know in other parts of the world it is seen as a legitimate treatment, while also potentially considered to be a hippy dippy homeopathic treatment. Anecdotally it seems you can starve certain cancers to death pretty easily by severely limiting your caloric intake. I sense a relationship between that and this study.

Fasting certainly prolongs life by limiting resources to the cancer which can't handle it very well compared to your own cells (that do not grow as rapidly).

It can't cure tho, because liver and kidney will create most important resources for body to be able to work.