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Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

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Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#341

Post by [deleted] »

user-the-name wrote: post #106
malux85 wrote: post #88

If the author has “been playing with the web and code for years” and is still “wtf” on /usr/local/bin in $PATH it shows a lack of discipline and structure in their learning. I see this in many in many of my apprentices - the desire for instant gratification and the lack of experience means they refuse to do anything that doesn’t immediately proceed them closer to their goal. Here’s the thing with programming - you ca…

/usr/local/bin has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with programming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. It is completely superfluous knowledge. It is only required because, as the author correctly points out, the tools we use are BAD. They are absolutely fucking AWFUL. /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. It's still here because we refuse to fix these ridiculous things. Nobody sho…

[deleted]

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#343

Post by kubanczyk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #216
dagw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still plenty of awesome things you can do in IT without ever touching code I spend a lot of my day working in a 'no code' visual programming environment and the difference between the solutions created by the people who know how to program and those who don't know how to program is massive. Those who don't know how to program tend to fail at coming up with non-trivial solutions and are not really able to debu…

Yup. That's because programming isn't just learning the vernacular. It's, first and foremost, learning to express concepts in a structured, super-precise way; learning to evolve systems in your head step by step, according to a set of arbitrary rules; learning the nature of computation. Familiarity with this type of thinking is visible not just in computer-related endeavors, but often in everyday life matters as well…

IMHO, before all that, programming is admitting before yourself that you are very often wrong (either when coming up with a usable mental model or when applying that mental model or when observing the unforeseen effects).

It's the first leap and as you make it you can manage the emotions and the growth will happen.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#344

Post by Koenvh »

svrtknst wrote: post #177

The hostility coming off of these comments is pretty off-putting. I share some of the sentiments and believe that the authro has some misconceptions. But I also believe that he makes a lot of great points. Installing and maintaining programming languages is too hard. Going from "I would like to try some $lang" to being up and running is usually difficult and requires you to install binaries, then deal with PATHs, and…

Exactly. My favourite programming experience so far has been Visual Studio. Setting it up is done in one installer that guides you through the process, and after that it just works.

I think a lot of people here forget that people who program no longer need to be "programmers", and understand every aspect of the system. For these people who just want to simulate a model, or do some calculations, or automate a mundane task. For them programming is a means to an end, it's about the result.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#345

Post by chme »

GuB-42 wrote: post #187
kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

I think the author is not talking about career programming. If that's your job, you have no excuses not learning command lines and all the other stuff. This, I think, is more intended for people who are not really programmers, but would like to write a bit of logic, and find themselves with tools intended for professionals. Because I am an experienced programmer now, I may be biased but I have a feeling we raised the…

> As a general rule, I consider all "don't be lazy" arguments wrong.

I don't agree nor disagree, but I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of this argument:

If someone is too lazy to learn how something works, would it not be hypocritical for them to complain about the laziness of other people, that fail to make it easier for them?

And if this lazy person writes their own stuff, would they be diligent enough to make it easier for others?

It would be something different if that person was actually not lazy and, after understanding something, could point out or help implement ways to make the introduction for the next person easier.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#346

Post by kaoD »

user-the-name wrote: post #172
dijit wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. Are you taking the piss? Should we also remove SOCKET's because they were introduced in that same OS? It should be noted that _EVERY_ modern operating system implements a "path" system, even the ones that are very divergent.

Should we remove sockets? Possibly. We could most likely design a better API today.

Go ahead and do so, please.

You keep saying that things could be better but show no counterexample.

Lead the change or stop whining. Nobody is going to do the job for you if they're satisfied by their current tools, especially if they think you're wrong.

Do it and prove everyone else wrong. If everyone thinks the status quo can't be improved, but you're enlightened, it's your chance to turn your "likely can be improved" into reality.

The non-programmer user base is immense. You can get rich by selling your alternative.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#347

Post by 0-_-0 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #249
0-_-0 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already did. The author found that installing Node.js needs knowledge about the command line while Excel just needs a few clicks of "Next" (I just did it yesterday)

Node.js could improve their installer, would that solve all of OPs complaints?

Probably.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#348

Post by rualca »

0-_-0 wrote: post #144
kichimi wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Node.js is a command line program, intended for writing server side applications on headless servers.

The command line is a layer of abstraction that could be made unnecessary for programming. You could program in Turbo Pascal without a command line in the 90s

> The command line is a layer of abstraction that could be made unnecessary for programming.

Wow, if I ever saw a comment on HN that was fundamentally wrong on many levels, this was it.

No, a command line interface is not "a layer of abstraction". A command line interface is an interface. That's it. Instead of pressing a button, you run a command. If you want to pass settings to an app when you launch it, you use the command line interface. If you want to script away a task, you call the command from your script.

That's it. It's not a layer of abstraction. It's an interface. They exist for many good reasons.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#349

Post by artimaeis »

user-the-name wrote: post #292
RealStickman_ wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User System Resources

That is not what it meant when it was created. Apparently some people have retroactively tried to change it mean that, but, that is just a complete nonsense phrase.

Right, as far as I understand it originally was just short for "user". It's where home directories of users were placed. Now that it's been relegated to storing user-usable programs & data it makes sense to me that it's separate from say /Users, but I suppose it could be aliased to something like /UserProgramsAndData for verboseness and clarity to newer users. But regardless, "User System Resources" is a fairly useful phrase, it's there to separate their system resources (programs & data) from their personal resources (which should be in their user directory).

But, a system _does_ have users. Those users _do_ have programs. There's a hierarchical relationship. I've been following along with your comments in this thread and I just don't follow what you're getting at here.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#350

Post by taneq »

swiftcoder wrote: post #149
taneq wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's possible that new aspiring programmers will gain the fortitude to read documentation after a little while programming, but I can't help feeling that if someone isn't able to type "computer path" into a search engine from the start, they probably won't be able to figure out a whole lot of programming.

I'd like to point out here that I just spent a good 5 minutes punching variants on "computer path", "node path", "node install path", etc. into Google. And exactly zero results on the first page for any of those queries have anything to do with how to configure the PATH variable in your shell. If someone didn't know what they were trying to solve for here, I'm not sure google would help them succeed.

I just searched "computer path" (no quotes) on DDG and got: - The wiki page for 'path' as a computing concept - 3rd result is "how to set the path in MS Windows" - 6th result is the wiki page for the path variable as a computing concept

I haven't used Google web search for years, has it really gotten that bad?

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