Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Spoon Theory (2003)

butyoudontlooksick.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 133 posts

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#71

Post by TeMPOraL »

hhjinks wrote: post #66
Ensorceled wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arguments of those against automation are that it eliminates jobs and consolidates wealth to the owners of the automation facilities, completely eliminating the contribution of laid off workers who go on to work menial jobs else where. How this "spoons" analogy a good argument against that?

That's not an argument against automation, it's an argument against capitalism.

Indeed it is. And if you look at it, most of the arguments against tech in general - including all the hand-wringing about AI, privacy and evil tech bros - they're all arguments against capitalism. But it would be boring to repeat the same thing that's been repeated for the past 100+ years, so people instead confuse symptoms with cause.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#72

Post by praptak »

101008 wrote: post #63
praptak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar to server apps. They should either have empty queue or max out a resource (CPU, disk bandwidth, network bandwidth).

Sorry, is this true? Last days I spent a lot of time going crazy because our apps are consuming 90% of memory on our instances and I feel bad/scary for that.

The principle is true and follows from the rule that no resource should be idle if there are requests that need it to be processed.

Memory, however is seldom the bottleneck. This is because most apps are not designed to queue requests if they don't fit in the available memory - they just allocate until they fail.

So, unless your apps are designed to queue requests in order to fit them into memory, this principle is probably not the explanation for the high memory usage.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#73

Post by sokoloff »

101008 wrote: post #63
praptak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar to server apps. They should either have empty queue or max out a resource (CPU, disk bandwidth, network bandwidth).

Sorry, is this true? Last days I spent a lot of time going crazy because our apps are consuming 90% of memory on our instances and I feel bad/scary for that.

At a minimum, you have to define max correctly. That’s not 100.00% of RAM bytes or CPU cycles and is probably under 25% of Ethernet networks for example.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#74

Post by dash2 »

endominus wrote: post #62
pjc50 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key thing there is not "no automation" but co-living in the same community; the main barrier to having your retired parents look after the children while you go to work is the need of most people to move across the country to look for jobs.

But those are linked attributes. Automation encourages/requires centralization and industrial scaling, and efficient allocation of labor demands that said labor be liquid in regards to physical location, making jobs less situated. The workforce must become more mobile, flocking to the latest job locus, and therefore more settled people are left behind.

Alternatively, automation might act as a platform for small local businesses (think people who sell via Shopify or Amazon). Indeed, I believe Americans have got less mobile in recent years, not more, though I'm not so sure that is a good thing.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#75

Post by kdelok »

padolsey wrote: post #39

Reflecting on how this applies to the tech industry, IME we're still very behind in accommodating those with chronic illnesses and disabilities. The 40-hour work week is still, on the whole, the minimum expectation across many FAANG-like companies. If falling ill during tenure, such companies ~generally seem receptive and supportive. But if you try to join such companies when you are already chronically ill or disabl…

Strongly agreed! It doesn't just seem unfair, it is unfair.

I also think that there's much more celebration of "overcoming" disability or illness, rather than the much more sustainable (and difficult!) practice of changing your work patterns and lifestyle to live within your daily allotment of spoons.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#76

Post by dsr_ »

101008 wrote: post #63
praptak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar to server apps. They should either have empty queue or max out a resource (CPU, disk bandwidth, network bandwidth).

Sorry, is this true? Last days I spent a lot of time going crazy because our apps are consuming 90% of memory on our instances and I feel bad/scary for that.

Two questions you need to answer:

1. Is the app breaking or failing or not serving its purpose in any way? First find the problem, then look for the causes.

2. Let's say your app is using 29G of the memory in a 32GB instance. If you put it in a 64GB instance, will it use 29GB of that, 63GB of that, or does it continue to grow until it runs out of memory and restarts? The first case means you have correctly sized your instance. The second case means the app is good about using almost but not quite all the memory available. The third case is a problem.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#77

Post by dsr_ »

strken wrote: post #68
padolsey wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBQH I have a real dislike for the relativistic thinking that people apply to this. Everyone does struggle, yes. But the degree of struggle, for some, is exponentially more. To just participate in the smallest parts of life... eating, cleaning, emptying one's bowels, is a daily challange. What if you could only afford energy for one outing to the shop? What if taking a shower felt like running a marathon? What if mak…

The phrasing of the article specifically invites relativistic thinking by starting from a premise that's obviously untrue for some, or even most, readers without long-term medical conditions. In fact, when I first read it, it half-convinced me that I was sick too. Where were those unlimited spoons when I overslept, decided not to shower, put on a pair of dirty socks and sprayed them with deodorant because there were…

If this is happening to you regularly, you are showing signs of depression and/or burnout. They're closely related. Yes, get help.

If this happens to you rarely, it was just a bad day.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#78

Post by notatrumper »

padolsey wrote: post #43
Puts wrote: post #27

"Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities" I think the comments to this post testifies that no one has unlimited spoons. Most people struggle. Some more, some less.

TBQH I have a real dislike for the relativistic thinking that people apply to this. Everyone does struggle, yes. But the degree of struggle, for some, is exponentially more. To just participate in the smallest parts of life... eating, cleaning, emptying one's bowels, is a daily challange. What if you could only afford energy for one outing to the shop? What if taking a shower felt like running a marathon? What if mak…

Some people have it even worse - they die.

So again, what is the point? I acknowledge that some (many) people have it worse than myself. Now what?

It is also a common recommendation to meditate on ones inevitable death daily. Maybe thinking about the fate of sick people could have a similar effect.

And of course one can wonder how to improve things for sick people. But that's only useful to some extent. I think it makes mostly sense for people in the social circle of the sick person.

I don't think there is much I can do for the spoon woman, safe for donating some money to Lupus research. And I also can not spend all my waking hours donating to various health research organisations (only so many spoons to go around). So maybe I donate some money to Lupus research, but beyond that, there would not be much benefit to me thinking much more about it.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#79

Post by pjc50 »

dash2 wrote: post #74
endominus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those are linked attributes. Automation encourages/requires centralization and industrial scaling, and efficient allocation of labor demands that said labor be liquid in regards to physical location, making jobs less situated. The workforce must become more mobile, flocking to the latest job locus, and therefore more settled people are left behind.

Alternatively, automation might act as a platform for small local businesses (think people who sell via Shopify or Amazon). Indeed, I believe Americans have got less mobile in recent years, not more, though I'm not so sure that is a good thing.

Unlikely, since automation has a positive return to scale. The surest evidence of this is the profitability of Amazon itself.

> people who sell via Shopify or Amazon

If you're selling by mail countrywide, you're not a "local" business any more even if you remain a small business.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#80

Post by rpaddock »

If you want to understand the day to day issues of real people then please watch the documentary *Pain Warriors* that is about Chronic Pain.

It is five stories, four of people with Chronic Pain, two that ended in suicides. My late wife Karen being one of them. The other story is of a doctor that the Medical Establishment destroyed for helping those with Chronic Pain. It is *NOT* a warm and fuzzy movie to watch.

For full disclosure I am a member of the cast, have been intimately involved in Pain Warriors production for several years. I receive no remuneration of any type. It is my mission to raise awareness of those suffering from Chronic Pain and Cerebrospinal Fluid (CSF) Leaks.

Pain Warriors can be found on Amazon Prime, iTunes, Google Play, Viemo (for international) and YouTube (sometimes, they are weird). The distributor set the pricing for the platforms and regions so check around for your best place to watch it.

We could really use your help. Our goal is to get Pain Warriors on Nexflix to reach a wider audience. For that to happen we need to have over a 100 positive reviews on The Internet Movie Database (the 100+ positive reviews on the other platforms don't count to Netflix).

Our segment in Pain Warriors is based on what has become known as "Karen's Journal". One reviewer wrote:

"Karen's first-hand account of her illness gave an honest, heart-wrenching depiction of what it is like to live with debilitating pain day-to-day."

Thank You for your help and bring up this subject here.

Post reply on HN