Why can't I write code inside my browser? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#81

Post by sullyj3 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

dbsmith83 wrote: post #15

The whole sentiment of this article just comes off a little whiny to me. Nowadays there is so much more information available for learning how to code and set up your dev environment. There are literally coding books for kids at book stores. And StackOverflow! When I was younger, one had to search high and low on the net trying to find help using shitty dial-up service. Then, you'd end up in some IRC channel asking f…

This is the nature of monotonic improvement. Just because things were substantially worse back in your day doesn't mean those darn kids don't have good reason to complain about the pain points of of today in an effort to make things substantially better tomorrow.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#82

Post by ccmcarey » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

oefrha wrote: post #74

DangitBobby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with the vitriol? The person who wrote this is active in the current thread.

The vitriol, if any, comes from eventually having to use products created by programmers without a shred of curiosity, expect everything handed to them, and do the bare minimum to create a semblance of working products. How many times have you used a website/app and it works so bad that you want to hit the programmer who wrote it? Frankly, “why do I need to figure out what PATH means” is shockingly non-curious even a…

Exactly this. It's frustrating reading this article and the author's comments in this thread as it's apparent that they don't want to put the smallest amount of effort into learning something that is by its nature complicated.

They don't want to have to google what $PATH does, they want the browser to come with an IDE (and massively ramping up its complexity because why?) instead of actually downloading an IDE.

The author has weirdly treated the problem of not knowing something as that it is wrong that they need to know it.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#83

Post by MayeulC » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

beefman wrote: post #51

We keep creating these, but one of two things always happens: 1. They fail (e.g. Smalltalk). 2. They succeed (e.g. the web). When they succeed, professional programmers overwhelm them and make damn sure only very very professional programmers can ever use them again.

> When they succeed, professional programmers overwhelm them and make damn sure only very very professional programmers can ever use them again.

I was reading that in the same vein yesterday: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all

(it's a well-known false interview with Stroustrup)

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#84

Post by godmode2019 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

Programming is hard to keep us employed.. Imagine how programming is going to be I'm the future when all the kids learning to code at primary school (k5).

We will have to add some more jargon new ways to do things so that the people who are not constantly keeping up to date are left behind. Its always been the way.

As a side note I do wish my browser has better programming tools for design, when I'm doing design I do all the editing in the browser and copy the js/css over when it works or looks nice.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#85

Post by zwp » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

kodoque2 wrote: post #62

dbsmith83 wrote: post #15

The whole sentiment of this article just comes off a little whiny to me. Nowadays there is so much more information available for learning how to code and set up your dev environment. There are literally coding books for kids at book stores. And StackOverflow! When I was younger, one had to search high and low on the net trying to find help using shitty dial-up service. Then, you'd end up in some IRC channel asking f…

If this is the case, it is because people were conscious that there was in issue in how computer turned into more and more as an appliance mean to consume information [1] (The C64 had a full programming manual delivered with it, booted directly to an interpreter and even had schematic of the machine reportedly!) and tried to counter it. Even then despite all the amazing ressource available, there is a risk of digital…

The schematic wasn't in the C64 User Guide delivered with the machine, but it was in an additional Commodore publication "Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide". The PRG was essential if you wanted to do anything more than the most basic BASIC contained in the UG.

See p.514- for the schematic https://archive.org/details/c64-programmer-ref/page/n513/mod...

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#86

Post by aspyct » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

DanielKehoe wrote: post #77

The author is right when he says "coding is still too damn hard for beginners." That's because he's been led to believe he needs to install Node to join the "code club." Contemporary professional web development (as practiced by members of "the code club") is madness. We owe it to beginners to show there are easy, practical, sensible ways to get started. He needs to look at tutorials that show how to write code with…

Agreed. Notepad for the win!

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#87

Post by aspyct » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

godmode2019 wrote: post #84

Programming is hard to keep us employed.. Imagine how programming is going to be I'm the future when all the kids learning to code at primary school (k5). We will have to add some more jargon new ways to do things so that the people who are not constantly keeping up to date are left behind. Its always been the way. As a side note I do wish my browser has better programming tools for design, when I'm doing design I do…

No matter how easy something gets, some people will spend enough time on it that it becomes "hard" to reach their level.

As for your note about css editing, have you tried Brackets? http://brackets.io/

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#88

Post by malux85 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:28 AM UTC

If the author has “been playing with the web and code for years” and is still “wtf” on /usr/local/bin in $PATH it shows a lack of discipline and structure in their learning.

I see this in many in many of my apprentices - the desire for instant gratification and the lack of experience means they refuse to do anything that doesn’t immediately proceed them closer to their goal.

Here’s the thing with programming - you can’t run before you can walk.

Go read “Learn python the hard way”, do 1 lesson a day

Go do Linuxjourney - do 1 lesson a day

By lesson 8 you’ll know about /usr/local/bin and path, and packages, that’ll fix all of your gripes about not being able to install ruby, pip and node too.

And all of that is solved only after 8 days of disciplined learning. Sure it’s not immediately towards your goal but you need the lower level skills and knowledge first. And it’s only 8 days!

Stop trying to assemble a fully functional car with no understanding of the fundamentals and then getting frustrated that car assembly is difficult. Go and learn some electrical engineering, go and learn some metalworking, go and learn some mechanical engineering, then you may come back and attempt to assemble a car. You might fail the second time too, but each time you’ll get further.

Stop seeking that immediate gratification, the path to success is NEVER a straight line

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#89

Post by Brian_K_White » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

gspr wrote: post #68

dbsmith83 wrote: post #15

The whole sentiment of this article just comes off a little whiny to me. Nowadays there is so much more information available for learning how to code and set up your dev environment. There are literally coding books for kids at book stores. And StackOverflow! When I was younger, one had to search high and low on the net trying to find help using shitty dial-up service. Then, you'd end up in some IRC channel asking f…

> Then, you'd end up in some IRC channel asking for help and someone simply says 'RTFM!' I had such a delightful retro experience the other day! I had spent days fighting a segfault in a widely used, mature library. Naturally, me being new to the library, and knowing that it's mature and widely used, I assumed I was doing something wrong. No mention of the problem online. Crickets in my StackOverflow question for day…

Your good experience was probably due to "10/10 would help someone who did their own homework first again!"

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#90

Post by DanielKehoe » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

aspyct wrote: post #86

DanielKehoe wrote: post #77

The author is right when he says "coding is still too damn hard for beginners." That's because he's been led to believe he needs to install Node to join the "code club." Contemporary professional web development (as practiced by members of "the code club") is madness. We owe it to beginners to show there are easy, practical, sensible ways to get started. He needs to look at tutorials that show how to write code with…

Agreed. Notepad for the win!

It doesn't have to be Notepad. But it's important to communicate to beginners that they can actually get far without build tools or frameworks. Go stackless. Use the platform.