Smart contracts on Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#161

Post by grubles » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

midmagico wrote: post #143

px43 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, Vitalik was run out on a rail by small blockers (mostly LukeJr) when he was trying to work on smart contracts on BTC back in the day. This is the entire reason he launched Ethereum, and took with him everyone else interested in working on smart contracts. Smart contracts are neat. Bitcoin is neat. Smart contracts on Bitcoin could have been a thing, but now it's too late. There is almost zero intersection bet…

These are of course multiple well-publicized but zero-fact assertions used as propaganda to trick people into ethereum and other altcoin bags.

It's hard to believe people are still repeating these verifiable lies.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#162

Post by px43 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #127

px43 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only economical to mine in areas with significant excess power, mostly around dams, but also wind farms and regions powered by geothermal. If anything, mining subsidizes green energy projects, and drives interest in cheaper and more efficient energy production, as well as more efficient semiconductor technologies.

I really don't think that's true except in pockets of the usa or europe with free markets (the power part)

Not at all. Also very much true in China. Miners are largely concentrated around the Sichuan area, which is also well known for their massive investments in hydroelectric power.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#163

Post by ur-whale » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #111

Please, enough with Bitcoin. It's an environmental disaster.

> Please, enough with Bitcoin. It's an environmental disaster.

Thank you very much for your deep, original, well thought-out and never-heard-before contribution to the conversation.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#164

Post by gjs278 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #111

Please, enough with Bitcoin. It's an environmental disaster.

shut up, it’s not. don’t post anymore.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#165

Post by px43 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

terse_malvolio wrote: post #137

px43 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only economical to mine in areas with significant excess power, mostly around dams, but also wind farms and regions powered by geothermal. If anything, mining subsidizes green energy projects, and drives interest in cheaper and more efficient energy production, as well as more efficient semiconductor technologies.

Subsidize? I think it's the opposite. Mining parasitizes on the cheapness of electric power.

That's just how markets work right? The important thing is that these power networks are getting utilized, and that money can be reinvested in building out more green energy projects. This is a net win for everyone involved.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#166

Post by px43 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

opreturn wrote: post #149

px43 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, Vitalik was run out on a rail by small blockers (mostly LukeJr) when he was trying to work on smart contracts on BTC back in the day. This is the entire reason he launched Ethereum, and took with him everyone else interested in working on smart contracts. Smart contracts are neat. Bitcoin is neat. Smart contracts on Bitcoin could have been a thing, but now it's too late. There is almost zero intersection bet…

> .. now it's too late. Perhaps it is too late for replicating existing use cases. However, the general idea of running EVM-like smart contracts secured by Bitcoin PoW (e.g. merge mined sidechains) is still quite attractive

First off I recognize and appreciate your username :-)

As such, you should know more than anyone how heated the OP_RETURN drama got, and how ANYONE using the BTC chain for anything other than moving money from point A to point B is a complete non-started and will be unanimously opposed by the core development team.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#167

Post by dchuk » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

muneeb wrote: post #152

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #110

This is basically a bespoke blockchain that uses BTC as oracle. It's not a smart contracts "on Bitcoin". By this logic, I could write an ERC20 token on ETH and use some BTC state, and call it "smart contracts on Bitcoin".

Muneeb here, Stacks co-founder. So it does not use Bitcoin as oracle. It uses Bitcoin as a settlement layer. (Oracles like Chainlink can be, and are being, built using Clarity lang for Stacks blockchain itself.) For using Bitcoin state on Ethereum, you'll need to implement Bitcoin SPV proofs. It's entirely possible but fairly complicated to do that given (a) Ethereum is a separate network that can fork independently…

(No disrespect to your project) I’m a technical person, built lots of software myself over the years, run a large product team now...and I have absolutely no idea how to parse almost anything you said here. May as well be in Greek, the density of buzzwords is wild.

Everything in cryptocurrency is so obtuse and unapproachable for even otherwise-technical people, it’s pretty incredible given it’s been around over a decade now.

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#168

Post by MrMan » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

ur-whale wrote: post #163

exabrial wrote: post #111

Please, enough with Bitcoin. It's an environmental disaster.

> Please, enough with Bitcoin. It's an environmental disaster. Thank you very much for your deep, original, well thought-out and never-heard-before contribution to the conversation.

It’s evil and it sucks

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#169

Post by 1996 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:56 AM UTC

a11yguy wrote: post #46

Its crazy how the conversation changes, it felt like many of the people on Hacker News were anti-bitcoin, but now that the price is nice, I'm seeing it on the first page all the time.

I guess everyone as a price, even on HN :)

Re: Smart contracts on Bitcoin

#170

Post by PhantomPhreak » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

grubles wrote: post #159

PhantomPhreak wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Creator of Counterparty here. It's funny to think that if the Core devs hadn't be so incredibly resistant to people using the Bitcoin blockchain in unexpected ways, Ethereum wouldn't exist in its current form. See https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/929804867568373760

Vitalik's claim is a lie. No "OP_RETURN wars" happened. It's a complete fabrication. See https://twitter.com/notgrubles/status/1187470076833697794

I strongly disagree with the way that Ethereum was launched and the way that it was run---indeed Ethereum was a competitor of Counterparty's, with a polar opposite approach and ethos---but Greg Maxwell is the one that's rewriting history there.