Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#341

Post by Caballera » Tue, May 24, 2011, 2:24 AM UTC

ericdschmidt wrote: post #310

Silhouette wrote: post #88

The thing I find most interesting about this discussion is that we have not yet seen anyone from the US proudly claiming that by working harder they are more productive than the rest of us. I have seen similar conversations several times on various on-line forums in the past, and there was always a defensive/proud mindset from a significant group, even as those of us outside the US wondered if they realised how much…

The United States has one of the very highest GDP (PPP) per hour worked in the world. Been that way for a long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP... . It makes sense, given our massive capital stock. So working longer hours here would mean a lot more productivity. I myself value leisure highly, though. I have a job as a software engineer at a large bank in New York. Right out of colleg…

I'm right there with you. I work for a small VoIP company as a support engineer and even we get decent vacation. Plus we work remotely 60% of the time. I've got it setup right now that ever 12 days of work I have 7 days off. Plus I have sick days and personal days. Which I don't need to use as I can just work from home (unless I'm so sick i can't work).

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#342

Post by dennisgorelik » Tue, May 24, 2011, 2:38 AM UTC

cdavid wrote: post #338

dennisgorelik wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living in Europe is higher than in the US. Consider cost of gasoline and real estate. It's just that Europeans have lower income, so they do not buy things that wealthier Americans do. Europeans on average are driving smaller and older cars, they drive less. Other things you mentioned - Europeans are buying less gadgets. Who's making the right choice is hard to say. Does larger house worth more than long vaca…

Generalizations like Europe is more expensive than the US make no sense. Where in Europe, where in the US ? There is quite a difference between cost of living in London, Paris and Munich already, and the cost of living in the Bay Area is not the same as Austin. Even within a given country, the cost of living is very spread out (London and Paris are extremely expensive compared to the average of their respective count…

Nothing stops you from comparing Austin, TX to Munich, Germany and San Francisco vs London/Paris.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#343

Post by 5teev » Tue, May 24, 2011, 2:44 AM UTC

thomasgerbe wrote: post #316

david927 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should more carefully choose your battles: It's really no contest. Bart closes at midnight and has four stops in the heart of SF. NY has an OK metro but if you want to go cross-town, better just walk. I've spent time in NYC and lived in SF, Zurich, Berlin, Prague and London. Europe destroys on this topic. A huge percentage of people in Europe, like myself, don't own cars simply because we don't have to.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Saying it's no contest is a huge exaggeration. I won't argue that BART/MUNI is better than other transit systems, but I still get around without a car. That said, the fact that transit closes in London and Paris while New York doesn't is a major advantage. It's actually precisely the reason why I have been able to not take a taxi or have to walk home in the early morning. And in NYC,…

BART and Muni beat most other transit systems in the US, but pale in comparison even to London, let alone Berlin or Frankfurt. If you're heading anywhere west of downtown SF, expect long waits for connecting buses...which often simply fail to appear, NextBus's predictions notwithstanding. As an earlier commenter mentioned, it's not uncommon for SF commuters to finish the last leg of their commute with a cab.

And a lot of people in NYC don't have cars simply because they can't afford to park them, not because available mass transit makes them unnecessary.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#344

Post by brass_cannon » Tue, May 24, 2011, 2:45 AM UTC

sosuke wrote: post #17

My employeer recently went unlimited vacation! Which in practice really means no vacation unless you bully your way into it which is very stressful.

It really is dependent upon your work environment, and the people you work for. When I started at my current job, we had two weeks vacation after 6 months, plus half a dozen holidays. We were a very young company, and I got the impression that policy was created somewhat arbitrarily when we only had a couple of full time employees.

We went to an 'unlimited' policy about 16 months ago, and one of our devs spent almost an entire month overseas earlier this year without issue. He's not too much of an outlier within our company in terms of how much vacation time is taken, either.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#345

Post by vacri » Tue, May 24, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

chrisaycock wrote: post #210

wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. I used to live in Britain. After having gone to doctor a few times there, I'd rather have the customer-pays model of America. I was just pointing-out that it's (obviously) expensive over here.

The US and UK are both bad examples. Here in Aus we have universal healthcare and private - if you want to jump waiting lines or have carpet on the waiting room floor, pull out your wallet and go private.

There are a few problems, but there is no perfect health system as there is always more demand than supply.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Post by theBobMcCormick » Tue, May 24, 2011, 3:10 AM UTC

rmc wrote: post #204

theBobMcCormick wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a co-worker who negotiated extra time of when he started here (3 weeks instead of the normal 2). Normally, we get an extra week of vacation after 5 years of employment. Unfortunately, they screwed him out of it because he already had 3 weeks, which is the normal amount for someone with 5 years of tenure. :-(

So if he worked there for 10 years he would have gotten 10 x 3 = 30 weeks holiday, however had he not negotiated he would have gotten 5 x 2 + 5 x 3 = 25 weeks. I cannot see how you consider that he got a bad deal.

It's a bad deal because he negotiated less starting salary in return for more starting vacation.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#347

Post by smackfu » Tue, May 24, 2011, 3:16 AM UTC

ugh wrote: post #334

michaelpinto wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a long time for me, but in the US I recall that it covers part of June, July and August — so that has to be at least over 8 weeks. Although maybe the idea that our kids get a longer Summer break is part of the the anti-vacation propaganda?

Yes, and? Are five weeks no vacation or what? This is what you said (just to remind you): “[We] have Summer vacation for schools (unlike the rest of the world).” That’s blatantly untrue.

Strong words! Five weeks is a lot different than ten weeks, any way you look at it.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#348

Post by dhume » Tue, May 24, 2011, 3:18 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #297

chrisaycock wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you bringing up lifestyle? The discussion is insurance . And my point is that, beyond the elderly, most citizens don't qualify for any of America's public insurance plans (I certainly don't): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_in_the_United_...

Why are you bringing up lifestyle? The discussion is insurance. Insurance does nothing to really insure your health. It is intended to help protect your wallet. A better way to protect your health is to take care of yourself so you are healthy. The discussion in the US about "the healthcare crisis" always focuses on the financial piece of it. There are differences between Europe and the US that impact health having n…

Insurance does nothing to really insure your health.

You are confusing "insure" and "ensure."

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Post by philwelch » Tue, May 24, 2011, 3:22 AM UTC

camiller wrote: post #282

artmageddon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Americans also have a weird fetish that you don't find other places about buying homes in their 20s." This is fueled by the social taboo of living at home with your parents/family and the availability of mortgages.

And the fact that at the end of 20 years of paying a mortgage I own a piece of property while at the end of 20 years of paying rent I own nothing.

You can spend 20 years renting a home, or you can spend 20 years renting money in order to pay for a home. Either way you're paying rent.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#350

Post by iqster » Tue, May 24, 2011, 3:22 AM UTC

thomasgerbe wrote: post #242

david927 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not idealizing: European take home less pay and pay more in taxes -- but get huge social benefits. If you're honestly trying to argue an equivalence in US and Europe in terms of such benefits, you're crazy. Europe is a big word as each country varies. That said... In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot But, from the studies I've seen, Europeans on average spend about h…

"No, they simply have public transit -- it's not great by any means. You often have to supplement with taxi in both places." Citation needed. 99.9% of the time I was lived in NY, I used public transit instead of taxis. London and France? Underground stops running close to one and so anytime I tried staying out late I needed to walk, take a night bus, or hail a cab (which is near impossible on a Friday night).

I lived in NYC and SF. Public Transit is far from ideal. When's the last caltrain on sunday? 8pm?? In NYC, I live in midtown east and take a lot of cabs .. mainly for cross town events. Yes .. I tried the bus but I realized my dignity was worth more than 10 bucks.