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What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

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Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#31

Post by dgabriel »

Alex3917 wrote: post #7
ratsbane wrote: post #2

Remarkable... I wish the US system were more like that but I can't see it happening. My high school was nothing like that. Montessori schools seem to lean in that direction though. Can anyone with first-hand Montessori experience comment on that?

That's the problem with Montessori. It's unclear what they actually believe. If you go through the mainstream literature on various educational theories, the proponents of each theory make a clear case about what this method does for children and why it is better than other methods, with some set of empirical results. With Montessori if you want access to their materials then you have to pay.[1] It's like the Sciento…

I think you may be getting Montessori mixed up with Waldorf. Information on the montessori method is widely available (start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori, google for more). My son goes to a public Montessori school, and if I want access to the materials, I just ask the teacher. Everything is open, and parents (including prospective parents) are very much encouraged to observe the classroom.

Waldorf is kind of weird and secretive and expensive, and based on suspect and outdated science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#32

Post by papersmith »

enra wrote: post #9

I'm Finnish and I would say "I don't know". Article paints quite a rosy picture which isn't necessary true. Finnish schools(elementary to high school) are very boring. There are almost no other activities, no special classes, no school sports(only p.e. for everybody), no advanced classes and teaching is mostly done with books, paper and board. Teachers maybe still care little bit about there students and think the ma…

Sounds like education in East Asia as well, except classical musical instrument lessons being the only extracurricular activities, which are almost as demanding as schoolworks.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#33

Post by dgabriel »

mynameishere wrote: post #28
gojomo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro-immigration, in the classic "the more the merrier" tradition of those with confidence in both markets and human innovation. But to be intellectually honest, we have to acknowledge that immigrants of different languages, cultures, and economic backgrounds will bring many 'average' statistics of education (and health, etc.) down. This is even true if the immigration is a net-benefit to both natives and newcomer…

legally-enforced homogeneity Honest question: Would you want to live in a country with legally-enforced diversity? (Because that's where you're living.)

Yes.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#34

Post by johnyzee »

jmtame wrote: post #26
pg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are almost no other activities, no special classes, no school sports (only p.e. for everybody), no advanced classes and teaching is mostly done with books, paper and board. Maybe this is good.

When I read that part I immediately thought of your essay "Why Nerds are Unpopular." Maybe there's a bit of psychology at play here. There might be a lower out casting of nerds if the popularity gap is smaller. Going off the essay, maybe it's far more acceptable to become more intelligent (both intellectually and scholastically) in this type of environment. If that's the case, it sounds like a school full of nerds wh…

As another Dane I can say that a lot of the things that Paul laments in his essays do not exist in our schools. Honestly we grimace at the notion of a 'prom queen' or a 'homecoming' celebration of a sports team.

I think in part we feel it absurd in the extreme to focus so overtly on physical prowess in an educational context, and another part of it is that it just goes against our very egalitarian culture.

Ironically, where the higher focus on actual study works in favor of a nerd, the egalitarianism works against him. Lets just say I became a crack pencil artist courtesy of countless and countless hours spent waiting for the class to catch up.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#35

Post by enra »

jmtame wrote: post #26
pg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are almost no other activities, no special classes, no school sports (only p.e. for everybody), no advanced classes and teaching is mostly done with books, paper and board. Maybe this is good.

When I read that part I immediately thought of your essay "Why Nerds are Unpopular." Maybe there's a bit of psychology at play here. There might be a lower out casting of nerds if the popularity gap is smaller. Going off the essay, maybe it's far more acceptable to become more intelligent (both intellectually and scholastically) in this type of environment. If that's the case, it sounds like a school full of nerds wh…

True. We don't have any athlete superpower or fierce popularity contests. I don't even remember that if anyone had been bullied over being good at school. Of course some kids are more popular than others, and there are always few tough guys, which are mostly regarded kind of sad cases.

But still for a half-nerd like myself, school was not a very intresting place to be. I was more interested in the real world and computers. School is like mundane job where you go because you have to, you have no control over it and nothing is real. Equal minds is great thing to have, but it means that you can't have so many best minds.

While our education may excel in PISA, still even our schools are not very inspirational places, which I think they should be.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#36

Post by wave »

Then why is the US the most innovative country in the world? I am not saying the others aren’t, but overall the US is the most innovative regardless of the poor schools. Maybe it doesn’t really matter who earns the top scores, it is what you accomplish with it.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#37

Post by mynameishere »

dgabriel wrote: post #33
mynameishere wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

legally-enforced homogeneity Honest question: Would you want to live in a country with legally-enforced diversity? (Because that's where you're living.)

Yes.

Your neighborhood or mine? Is it okay if the good and decent men of congress choose your neighbors? Or should nationalist groups like La Raza be in charge of determining the country's composition? That's what I mean by "legally-enforced diversity": Powerful people, deciding for other people, whether they are acceptable, or whether they should be numerically marginalized.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#39

Post by Alex3917 »

dgabriel wrote: post #31
Alex3917 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with Montessori. It's unclear what they actually believe. If you go through the mainstream literature on various educational theories, the proponents of each theory make a clear case about what this method does for children and why it is better than other methods, with some set of empirical results. With Montessori if you want access to their materials then you have to pay.[1] It's like the Sciento…

I think you may be getting Montessori mixed up with Waldorf. Information on the montessori method is widely available (start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori , google for more). My son goes to a public Montessori school, and if I want access to the materials, I just ask the teacher. Everything is open, and parents (including prospective parents) are very much encouraged to observe the classroom. Waldorf…

No I meant Montessori. The Wikipedia article and the information on montessori.org provide a short description and a few example activities, but neither contain anywhere near enough insight/information to make a rational evaluation of the program. So far as I can tell you pretty much have to accept everything on faith.

Re: What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart?

#40

Post by dgabriel »

Alex3917 wrote: post #39
dgabriel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be getting Montessori mixed up with Waldorf. Information on the montessori method is widely available (start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori , google for more). My son goes to a public Montessori school, and if I want access to the materials, I just ask the teacher. Everything is open, and parents (including prospective parents) are very much encouraged to observe the classroom. Waldorf…

No I meant Montessori. The Wikipedia article and the information on montessori.org provide a short description and a few example activities, but neither contain anywhere near enough insight/information to make a rational evaluation of the program. So far as I can tell you pretty much have to accept everything on faith.

Seriously, as much info about Montessori as you want is out there, and unless the school you're dealing with is a little shady, you should be able to walk in & request anything without paying tuition. You can also find a lot more than those two sites on the internet.
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