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German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

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Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#291

Post by dpiers »

abstractbarista wrote: post #250

Glad to see more XMR usage in these. For every market you take down, two more shall pop up. You cannot fix a demand-side problem by restricting supply. Economically, the pricing will always rise to meet the increased risk of supplying. This war cannot be won. So please just give up.

You can still be highly effective in disincentivizing behavior without completely preventing it. Enforcement raises risk, raising prices, which decreases consumption and thus the incentive to distribute. People are less likely to want to participate as a seller or buyer.

You talk a big game, but I don't think you understand the reality for people who are involved and get caught. Let me know when one of your closest friends gets arrested by the Feds and you don't get to see them for a decade plus.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#292

Post by asdff »

cm2187 wrote: post #279
epanchin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mail is not traceable. There is no record of sender, and a parcel being addressed to you is not proof you ordered it. I suppose this might differ worldwide, but I’m guessing most countries have post boxes? Wapo did an article on it some time ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/16/postal-se...

I am pretty sure all mail is scanned (outer envelope) in the US (and I suspect in most countries) and the record is kept. So the police can tell after the fact what was sent to whom from which post office / collection point. I assume all it takes is a bit of CCTV to fully identify the sender.

There is no CCTV monitering a USPS drop box far from a post office. You could also address the package to your neighbor then take it off their porch after you see the USPS truck make their rounds. Or address it to a derelict property where you know no one will be home. Its trivial to mail things.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#294

Post by Strongylodon »

martin_a wrote: post #70

"the largest market" always reminds me of "Bin Ladens right hand". Obviously the next one becomes the largest, but nevertheless it's like they kill at least one of those markets a month. Probably legalizing weed would stop most of that more effectively than all those police operations after month of preparation.

>"the largest market" always reminds me of "Bin Ladens right hand".

If they're not selling guns, child abuse imagery or other extreme stuff maybe treat it as a source of intelligence rather than keep playing whack a mole?

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#295

Post by tachyonbeam »

pengaru wrote: post #75
martin_a wrote: post #70

"the largest market" always reminds me of "Bin Ladens right hand". Obviously the next one becomes the largest, but nevertheless it's like they kill at least one of those markets a month. Probably legalizing weed would stop most of that more effectively than all those police operations after month of preparation.

Uhhh... weed is not even close to the most purchased drug via the dark web. Certainly not in plant matter form. They'd have to legalize all the club/party drugs to make a dent; pills and powders, lsd.

LSD is a drop in the bucket. Practically nobody consumes that to party. You'd want to specifically legalize MDMA, cocaine and ketamine.

Cocaine trafficking is (unfortunately) a very murderous industry. Legalizing that alone would probably save thousands of lives every year.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#296

Post by asdff »

spurdoman77 wrote: post #121
cm2187 wrote: post #118

I get how these market places are used for digital goods (malware, credit cards), but I don’t understand how people can trade physical goods on those. If they have to exchange products, they must either meet in person or use the mail, either is trackable by the authorities. I see how the seller can protect himself for local transactions. He could leave the goods hidden somewhere and tell the buyer where to go. But th…

Post can be sent relatively anonymously. Receiving is problematic but for small amounts of weed most drug users dont care.

Just address the package to a derelict propery then stop by on delivery day to scoop it off the front door. Receiving isn’t hard. I also routinely get mail from the past dozen or so tenants who had my address, so you could just use a fake addressee as well.

When USPS does randomly seize a package (such as a fake ID caught at customs) the end result is nothing happens to the receiver other than the package not arriving.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#297

Post by asdff »

leoplct wrote: post #139

It is very easy for the buyer to get caught: - Buy BTC from an exchange with KYC and then send it to the seller (police) - Receive the product by post or collect it at a pick-up point where the seller (police) knows the address. What strategies can the buyer follow to protect his privacy and trust the seller?

Receiving a package at your address does not make you a criminal. In this situation the police really have no case.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#298

Post by MivLives »

gameswithgo wrote: post #185
martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

I would suggest that it is possible that some drugs are worse than others. That perhaps caffeine should be freely available but meth should be regulated or outlawed, for instance. I do not KNOW this to be the correct I am simply asking you to consider that it could be the case that some drugs are more dangerous to people/society than others. I do however agree that alcohol is likely extremely bad for people/societies…

I think one of the problems with banning alcohol is that it's too easy to make. Synthing LSD is hard. Fermentation can happen accidentally.

When you look at something like Meth, you may not realize it's a schedule 2 drug in the US (so are cocaine, and pcp). While weed is a schedule 1.

We really need to look at how this scheduling works, and consider lowering the bar for certain substances, and raising it for other.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#299

Post by curryst »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #254
martin_a wrote: post #70

"the largest market" always reminds me of "Bin Ladens right hand". Obviously the next one becomes the largest, but nevertheless it's like they kill at least one of those markets a month. Probably legalizing weed would stop most of that more effectively than all those police operations after month of preparation.

True but please don't stop on weed, please also liberalize non-narcotic prescription medications availability to let people buy whatever they know they need without having to visit a doctor.

I agree with you on many prescriptions, but many have a legitimate need to be regulated.

Antibiotics are an obvious one. Antibiotic resistance is a real, and growing, issue. If people start popping them every time they get a sniffle, that's going to get a lot worse.

Some medications have very serious side effects, and a doctor really should vet that you're healthy enough to withstand those.

Some medications can have very severe interactions. Part of the prescription process is that their computer is supposed to alert the pharmacist if some combination of the meds you're on creates an issue.

Honestly, those few categories knock out most of the useful medications. Mental health drugs are generally safe, but self-medication isn't usually effective in those scenarios.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#300

Post by freedomben »

dpiers wrote: post #291
abstractbarista wrote: post #250

Glad to see more XMR usage in these. For every market you take down, two more shall pop up. You cannot fix a demand-side problem by restricting supply. Economically, the pricing will always rise to meet the increased risk of supplying. This war cannot be won. So please just give up.

You can still be highly effective in disincentivizing behavior without completely preventing it. Enforcement raises risk, raising prices, which decreases consumption and thus the incentive to distribute. People are less likely to want to participate as a seller or buyer. You talk a big game, but I don't think you understand the reality for people who are involved and get caught. Let me know when one of your closest f…

Not sure I understand your argument. It seems like you are against allowing these markets to function. But then you say:

> Let me know when one of your closest friends gets arrested by the Feds and you don't get to see them for a decade plus.*

Which seems like an argument in support of GP. If we didn't make these illegal, which then increases prices and danger (only the most ruthless survive), which in turn incentivizes one of your closest friends to take the risk by getting involved in the supply side, then you wouldn't have to worry about "your closest friends gets arrested by the Feds and you don't get to see them for a decade plus."

If you're talking about demand side (i.e. your friend is a user), banning the markets won't address that problem. Sure it impacts demand, but it will never eliminate it and it only makes those sucked in all the more vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, and unable to get help from law enforcement since they are committing crimes (this is the identical problem that sex workers with abusive jons and/or "pimps" often have as well).

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