U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#21

Post by grawprog » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

wcoenen wrote: post #19

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

> I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advantage of now I don't think it matters. Wait, what? You casually suggest that the pandemic was planned as a conspiracy against the middle class, but you don't think it matters whether it was a conspiracy or not? Please clarify if I mis…

Not the parent, but I read that as, whether or not it was a conspiracy, the effect seems to be the same and the damage is done, so whether it is or not doesn't really matter.

As in, focusing on the cause of the problem and whether it was intentional or not isn't going to solve the problem.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#22

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #4

As I have watched these headlines, I have constantly been frustrated by the lack of analysis of what's really going on beyond the data point. Which industries lost jobs? Are the losses temporary due to lockdowns or a sign of an accelerating recession? Which regions lost the most jobs? Which income levels are most affected? What percent of jobless people are being covered by unemployment? And so on. A single data poin…

There's not lock downs in the US. There are some rules about how businesses can operate, but people aren't locked down.

Here there is no in person dining. I think it would be pretty interesting to compare their revenues from 2019 to the periods during the pandemic where they have been open. My impression is that the 2020 numbers would be pretty weak, but I don't know.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#23

Post by zamfi » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

wcoenen wrote: post #19

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

> I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advantage of now I don't think it matters. Wait, what? You casually suggest that the pandemic was planned as a conspiracy against the middle class, but you don't think it matters whether it was a conspiracy or not? Please clarify if I mis…

Also not the parent, but I assume "calculated beforehand" does not refer to the pandemic per se, but rather either preparedness for when the economy goes south or exploitation of that reality after the fact.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#24

Post by RickS » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

wcoenen wrote: post #19

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

> I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advantage of now I don't think it matters. Wait, what? You casually suggest that the pandemic was planned as a conspiracy against the middle class, but you don't think it matters whether it was a conspiracy or not? Please clarify if I mis…

I suspect they meant the economic/financial response to the pandemic, and the larger mom/pop => gig monolith and physical retail => ecommerce trends, rather than the pandemic itself.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#25

Post by beerandt » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

Forced shutdowns without immediate compensation is an illegal government taking under the Constitution. You know it as expropriation.

There's got to be more incentive for governments to lift these restrictions, and a real cost of they don't, even if they're playing with someone else's money.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#26

Post by lazyjones » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

Unpopular opinion, but I don't understand why people still tolerate these drastic and destructive measures when we can see all over the world that they have minimal effect on seasonal virus infections. Have we abandoned all common sense in sheer panic?

Just an example: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToS...

Romania has had much more liberal policies than Austria for months, yet it is doing better (by a small constant factor it seems). The seasonal effect is clearly visible.

We will be suffering the consequences of these wrong policies for years as countries, and in particular also Europe as a whole, losing ground internationally.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#27

Post by ravedave5 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

fabianhjr wrote: post #15

It is grimmer to look at the labour participation rate: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab... If anything between outsourcing and automation employment isn't coming back. (And the employment that does come back will be at sub-minimum wage 12-hour days precarized "gigs" or 3 "half-time" jobs)

Really strange they don't have an age upper limit, a bunch of that decline is likely baby boomers leaving the workforce.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#28

Post by GordonS » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #10

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

What else could you call it? You can't drop taxes on the wealthiest Americans who are seeing the lions share of wealth transferred to them and then have the government spend like a drunken sailor to try to keep the economy from tanking. SOMEONE has to pay for those stimulus checks and it appears right now it's turning into a loan that our great grandchildren will bear the responsibility of so that Bezos and Co can se…

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I recently read that Trump's tax cuts for the rich cost more than the stimulus checks.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#29

Post by ahoy » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

wcoenen wrote: post #19

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

> I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advantage of now I don't think it matters. Wait, what? You casually suggest that the pandemic was planned as a conspiracy against the middle class, but you don't think it matters whether it was a conspiracy or not? Please clarify if I mis…

They're talking about the upward wealth siphon, not the pandemic.

Re: U.S. jobless numbers surge as worsening Covid-19 pandemic hurts businesses

#30

Post by throwaway5752 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

scohesc wrote: post #3

Man, it's so frustrating seeing all these businesses shutting down (smaller ones are closing for good), meanwhile I'm sure Bezos and the Silicon crew are reporting record profits this year through food deliveries and amazon purchases. I sometimes find it very _very_ hard to not see this all a transfer of wealth from the middle/lower classes to the upper classes - either calculated beforehand or just being taken advan…

This pandemic was avoidable. I say that because when you work with international colleagues you see it firsthand. Other countries aren't suffering like the US is. The US mismanagement of the pandemic just on it's really diminishes it's global standing. It's not Bezos or Instacart or whomever, it's the basic lack of top down coordination in a response to the virus and dissemination of the vaccine.

These small business would probably not be closed if we had a competent national response. The probably would be closed but not bankrupt if we didn't have an inept fiscal response, also.