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Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

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Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#101

Post by snarf21 »

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

Or they should never allow military gear to be advertised at all given its main customers.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#102

Post by r00fus »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #80
brundolf wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability is tricky because a) it seems like it would be hard to prove, and b) it could get too broad, hampering internet expression in general. I tend to think a specific law against automated content-curation would be better - that's the true source of problems - though it's obviously still really hard to define (arguably anything a computer does is "automated"). The simplest solution might be privacy protections,…

People have been taught by big tech companies' PR teams that any regulation will hurt the Internet, but I don't believe it's remotely true. Internet companies currently enjoy near complete immunity to content they distribute, but when such things have gone, the Internet will readjust.

Either we legislate big tech or big tech will drive/own the process that creates legislation (arguably the latter is already happening).

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#103

Post by manigandham »

sramam wrote: post #87
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the solution is liability: Companies will keep leaving unchecked algorithms responsible for this until they can go to jail for doing so. Adtech is a cancer and it's time to cut it out using every legislative and regulatory option we have. Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that.

> Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that. Why not the CEOs of the companies using the targeted keywords/demographic information? The "it's not the gun that kills, it's the people who kill" argument?

How is that argument? The people advertising and selling are not the people buying and using them. It's different people.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#104

Post by gorgoiler »

prophetjohn wrote: post #15
theandrewbailey wrote: post #8

According to modern zeitgeist, if Facebook can't be trusted to moderate their users, Facebook should be deplatformed and shut down. Edit: wow, that blew up. For the record, I don't think Facebook should be shut down, and I don't think Parler should have either. I'm rather anti-social media, so I've never used either. We should have better reasons for doing things, and stick to them. Section 230 exists for a reason.

I'm no Facebook fan or apologist, but I do think there's a distinction between failing to moderate perfectly (or even well) and refusing to even attempt to moderate.

Parler’s chief policy officer contends that they were (1) actively hiring content moderators (to augment their jury system) and (2) working with Amazon to get AWS AI facilities so they could implement automated moderation. These programs were in progress right up until the site went down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000r4vm

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#105

Post by brewdad »

nataz wrote: post #66
rreichel03 wrote: post #7

As an anecdote, since July they've started showing me ads for body armor almost nonstop whenever I actually open the app. Just the other day it was a body armor ad then an ad for a tactical communication earpiece.

I'm seeing adds for illegal pistol and rifle suppressors (aka "silencers") only barely disguised as "fuel filters" and "solvent traps". The companies selling the suppressor kits claim they are legitimate auto parts. They clearly aren't. Some people have claimed that it would be legal to buy these if you applied for a license to manufacture a suppressor, but good luck arguing that in federal court, especially since th…

Man, you get to see all the cool ads. The first three ads on my feed this morning are for the internet provider I already use and two different pneumonia medications targeted at people 20-25 years older than me.

I guess my life is more boring than I thought or the Facebook containers on my computer and phone do a really good job of keeping FB in the dark.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#106

Post by dunnevens »

DIVx0 wrote: post #59

I'll pile on an anecdote. I still have a facebook account but its not something I use very often except the past week given the situation in the USA. My facebook account is very old, when i was more of an active user I did all the usual posts/photos that a lot of liberal urban types contribute. Anyway, after posting some anti-insurrection posts I start noticing all sort of "tacti-cool" gear ads or targeted T-shirt s…

I think your last assumption is correct. I've had something similar happen to me. I participate in ex-evangelical groups because of my childhood. And other groups highly critical of American conservative Christianity. Facebook floods my ads with appeals from conservative churches, conservative religious organizations, and for some reason thinks I'm deeply interested in Calvinism.

It's oddly reassuring. This shows FB doesn't know anything about what I want. At least, their ad algorithms don't. Feels like a very primitive response on their part.

Had something similar happen with journals of all things. Around 6 months ago, a friend of mine shared her new physical journal that she was proud of. Said she wanted to get back to writing her novel. I hit like or love to show support. Ever since then, there's been a massive deluge of ads for journals and various writer creativity tools. Even though I've never once sought out anything related to journals or creative writing.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#107

Post by mywittyname »

DIVx0 wrote: post #59

I'll pile on an anecdote. I still have a facebook account but its not something I use very often except the past week given the situation in the USA. My facebook account is very old, when i was more of an active user I did all the usual posts/photos that a lot of liberal urban types contribute. Anyway, after posting some anti-insurrection posts I start noticing all sort of "tacti-cool" gear ads or targeted T-shirt s…

> so my guess is that someone out there is spending a lot of money on a huge ad target

I think this is really it. The profit margins on this stuff is insane. And the volumes of money typical people spend on this stuff is also insane.

(speculation here) The insurrection is probably opening the door for new customers. I would not be surprised to hear a people in zero-gun households are now seeking to acquire their first one. That allure of "protection" is strong. And urbanites represent a huge untapped market for guns and tactical gear. So it makes sense to push ads on these people.

Going from zero to one is the biggest leap. I bet there's usually some event for people that primes them to pull the trigger. You buy that first one for protection, but the next ones are because they are fun, fashionable, or an investment. I know a fair number of people with gun+related collections which exceed the value of their cars. The fact that gun collecting has become fairly profitable in the past few years seems to have really spurred a frenzy of buying. If you can buy something for $800, and sell it for $1300 in three years, then why not buy as much as you can afford? This then fuels shortages, raising prices.

So yeah, it might be very much _not_ you, right now, but I bet they are hoping enough ads will change your mind. I mean, you want to be the cool, macho person that you family and friends turn to for protection in these trying times, right? /s

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#108

Post by anovikov »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #72
brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

That's why the solution is liability: Companies will keep leaving unchecked algorithms responsible for this until they can go to jail for doing so. Adtech is a cancer and it's time to cut it out using every legislative and regulatory option we have. Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that.

But only real alternative to adtech is spam: cheap (because of very low effectiveness), flashy rows of banner ads, 1990s style. I am old enough to remember how obnoxious internet experience was ~20 years ago before targeted ads became a thing. It sucked.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#109

Post by bitbuilder »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #78
bitbuilder wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another anecdote, I've had the same ad targeting for this last week or so. (Which is really unfortunate timing.) At some point I must've clicked on the wrong article while seeing what the "other side" was up to. And now my feed is full of tacticool insurrectionist chic. The most disconcerting to me was an ad showcasing a "tactical hooded trench coat"[0], with the model holding an AK in the FB ad. I mean, nobody is…

If Google Images is any indication a "tactical hooded trench coat" seems like exactly the kind of thing you see the HN demographic wearing while walking to work on a rainy day. TBH I was expecting to see actual trench coats but they all seem like normal tight-ish fitting jackets in various grays, greens, browns and camo.

I can't find it anywhere anymore, even on their site. They must have realized they weren't reading the room well with the ad and modeling.

But I did screenshot it previously: https://imgur.com/gallery/bxcK7zb

If that's the look of the HN demographic, I'm even more out of touch than I thought I was.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#110

Post by mminer237 »

a3n wrote: post #23
prophetjohn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no Facebook fan or apologist, but I do think there's a distinction between failing to moderate perfectly (or even well) and refusing to even attempt to moderate.

This isn't failure of anything. It's targeted advertising. They meant to do that. The system is working, "as advertised."

This is a failure of targeted advertising. Do you think Facebook would approve this if they had a human looking at the algorithm?
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