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Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#101

Post by rangoon626 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #59
rangoon626 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile the whole “if you don’t like Facebook moderation go build your own” bit.

If you build your own thing then it will be subject to the moderation of whatever service you build it upon. In this case, hosting services and app stores. If you don't like their moderation either, you are free to setup your own bare metal servers, even your own app store. And then there is Tor. If you really want to live outside of any moderation, outside of even basic laws, then setup a Tor hidden service. If you…

Must have missed the part where Apple allows developers to set up their own app stores.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#102

Post by leetcrew »

shlant wrote: post #60
mrweasel wrote: post #14

So is Google going to throw them out of the Play store? What's the argument for banning one social media and not another. Where do you draw the line that manages to keep Facebooks app available, while still being able to defend the removal of Parler. I know many will think I'm defending Parler, I'm not. I just don't see why Facebook is continuously given a free pass for all the horrible stuff on their platform. Is it…

I don't deny there is probably some favoritism going on, but is Facebooks willingness to moderate their content not at least part of the reason? Parler was completely hands off when it came to any sort of moderation of the content its users were posting (by design) which allowed for threats of violence to go unchecked and flourish within the platform. That seems like a pretty significant determinant when considering…

> That seems like a pretty significant determinant when considering which site had a more direct connection to the events that transpired.

does it really? "tries but fails to moderate extremism at massive scale" doesn't seem better than "makes no effort to moderate at much smaller scale". I guess the first leaves some potential for improvement in the future, but I don't expect a whole lot from facebook.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#103

Post by coffeefirst »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28
mrweasel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Facebook worse, in my mind, is that people don't seem to care that it's their real name associated with terrible radical, violent and angry comment. At least on something like 4Chan you'd be anonymous, but nope, people will write the most grotesque comments, while everyone can see their real name, where they live and who they work for. Some people don't seem to care, and that's pretty scary.

> people don't seem to care that it's their real name associated with terrible radical, violent and angry comment The hypothesis of real name policies was that people would be civil online if their real-world identities grounded them. In reality, the tail wagged the dog.

Yeah, it may have worked in some contexts, but people also read the room. And when the algorithm is setting the room to "1 tick more extreme than you" they gradually dial up.

I've watched this process turn friends who had pretty mild political leanings to "burn it all down" radicals or transform into right wing talk radio hosts. It's not good.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#104

Post by throwawayosiu1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82
ashtonkem wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One key takeaway from 1/6 is that a sizable chunk of the mob had no idea that they were doing anything wrong, and are surprised to find themselves in handcuffs after the fact. At least most historical revolutionaries had the self awareness to understand that trying to overthrow the state is super illegal , and maybe a bit of clandestine-ness is in their own best interest.

> a sizable chunk of the mob had no idea that they were doing anything wrong Has anyone dug into this? What were the actual stories that caused that suspension of critical thinking? (Serious answers, please.)

I guess that's because the world is not black and white. You see corrupt cops hurt you while the nice mob helps your family.

It's one of the reasons why successful criminals always have a good community outreach program. Once you have the people on your side, it's very hard for the police to do much.

When gangs selling drugs in Colombia originally started, while they were quite violent, they did take care and look after the local community they were based in. And in return, they local community took care of them by alerting them when the military was closing in as an example.

If you're a young kid growing up in that environment, it's easy to see how you'd consider the military as the bad guys since all you see them do is come in and create chaos / hurt people etc. while the local drug dealer on your street is ensuring that you have food to eat.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#105

Post by andrewzah »

leetcrew wrote: post #102
shlant wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny there is probably some favoritism going on, but is Facebooks willingness to moderate their content not at least part of the reason? Parler was completely hands off when it came to any sort of moderation of the content its users were posting (by design) which allowed for threats of violence to go unchecked and flourish within the platform. That seems like a pretty significant determinant when considering…

> That seems like a pretty significant determinant when considering which site had a more direct connection to the events that transpired. does it really? "tries but fails to moderate extremism at massive scale" doesn't seem better than "makes no effort to moderate at much smaller scale". I guess the first leaves some potential for improvement in the future, but I don't expect a whole lot from facebook.

Intent does matter. Why don't you try moderating posts at the scale facebook receives them, and we can compare the results.

edit: I am not advocating for or against facebook being so large. What I am saying is there is a clear distinction between facebook and e.g. parler in terms of moderation.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#106

Post by tester34 »

hoseja wrote: post #46
mrweasel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Facebook worse, in my mind, is that people don't seem to care that it's their real name associated with terrible radical, violent and angry comment. At least on something like 4Chan you'd be anonymous, but nope, people will write the most grotesque comments, while everyone can see their real name, where they live and who they work for. Some people don't seem to care, and that's pretty scary.

It's easy, just give people a soci^H^H^H^H ... community rating to motivate them to behave better!

>^H^H^H^H

hmm?

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#107

Post by biffstallion »

What hypocrisy... despite eight months of deaths, threats, and continued destruction from BLM/Antif rioters who continue to get bailed out by the "Minnesota Freedom Fund" they continue to have a platform but conservative voices do not. What a load of garbage.

The breakup of BigTech cannot happen fast enough!

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#108

Post by kenjackson »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82
ashtonkem wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One key takeaway from 1/6 is that a sizable chunk of the mob had no idea that they were doing anything wrong, and are surprised to find themselves in handcuffs after the fact. At least most historical revolutionaries had the self awareness to understand that trying to overthrow the state is super illegal , and maybe a bit of clandestine-ness is in their own best interest.

> a sizable chunk of the mob had no idea that they were doing anything wrong Has anyone dug into this? What were the actual stories that caused that suspension of critical thinking? (Serious answers, please.)

They are in a bubble. Watch interviews where some are convinced Trump win because nobody they knew voted for Biden.

If you’re in this bubble and the President tells you to do something, you figure how can it be wrong. The leader of our country is telling me to do this.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#109

Post by tester34 »

sn_master wrote: post #47
goto11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what direction does HN radicalize us?

There are many Taboo opinions and thought tracks on HN that guarantee downvoting and as a result anyone not exposed to them in advance might be inclined to think that they must be heresies that should never be considered by the intelligentsia. Example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25768269 And things that contradict The Great Stallman teachings like TiVoization (even in self-driving cars) or saying that someth…

> or saying that something can be done more efficiently with Windows

are people here this naive?

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#110

Post by leetcrew »

IgorPartola wrote: post #78
nhumrich wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

real people like parlor.

Knives can be used to kill people. But a lot more knives are used in cooking. So we see knives as tools that are relatively rarely used to do bad things and mostly used for good things. Guns are mostly used to kill people. So we see them as tools only useful for that purpose. That’s why you can buy a set of knives on Amazon but not a 10 pack of Glocks. Facebook is seen closer to knives. Parler was mostly guns.

> Guns are mostly used to kill people. So we see them as tools only useful for that purpose.

this isn't true. guns are used far more often for hunting animals than for killing humans, by multiple orders of magnitude. even more often, guns are used to shoot targets at the range.

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