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Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#71

Post by FreakyT »

owlmirror wrote: post #37
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Facebook is intrinsically a passion-group generator. Where "passion" is the edges of "adoration" to "enmity". Anything that "triggers" you (to interact w/ the platform), be it pottery or anarchy, FB will find "your people". If you are prone to fits of passion, FB will find your passion-mates... mated to you by fear, anxiety, rage ... or joy.

I really don't know about this. There are certainly fringe groups active on Facebook but at least in my immediate circle it's mostly a tool to connect families, friends and communities. I really don't see it as a forum for ideas or activism, unlike Twitter or reddit. but maybe that's just the bubble I'm in.

> I really don't see it as a forum for ideas or activism, unlike Twitter or reddit. but maybe that's just the bubble I'm in.

Exactly -- and that's the real danger of algorithmic engagement-driven content.

For you, it's picking harmless content because that's what you engage with. But once you start engaging with, say, some crazy cult, Facebook's algo will pick up on that, and start prioritizing content from the crazy cultists. In time, you'll get to the point where you're only seeing content from the cultists, and come to believe that's what everyone thinks, because that's all you'll ever see. YouTube suffers from this too.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#72

Post by AlexandrB »

rangoon626 wrote: post #49

All Facebook really did is show blue city liberals how their fellow countrymen actually are. Yes, they have been like this the whole time, you just either didn’t care or were insulated from it your entire life. If any of this is news to you, you should probably think twice before blaming it on Facebook, alone.

This is revisionism. There have always been cranks in the Republican faithful, but never have they been as detached from reality in as large of numbers as with Q Anon. Consider all the stories of people "losing" their relatives to increasingly deranged Q-adjacent conspiracy nonsense. These aren't just the cranks that were always there, they're fresh converts.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#73

Post by JumpCrisscross »

croes wrote: post #62
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn't they freeze Trump only after the entire backlash? Yes. To be fair, Parler didn’t do much including after the backlash. But I’m not going to argue this is another advantage Facebook accrues due to its size.

How much money has Parler?

> How much money has Parler?

Parler probably pays Google and Apple more for ads than Facebook.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#76

Post by makomk »

krona wrote: post #23
hoka-one-one wrote: post #2

Terrible. The storming of the capitol was probably the most frightening single event in American history in recent times. I just got off the phone with my friend who lives in China. He was in tears. He didn't understand how someone could have such disregard for the value of human life and democracy to walk inside the capitol building in DC. It's completely against the law. For those in the dark, the event caused seri…

Hysterical commentary is contributing to the radicalisation on both sides.

Not just hysterical, but unbelievably, cynically partisan.

Three and a half years ago, someone radicalised by Facebook shot a group of members of Congress after asking them about their party affiliation. One of them, Steve Scalise, was hospitalized for a couple of months fighting for his life, and my understanding is that if some of the bullets had been just a couple of inches across he'd be dead right now for sure. The response of the New York Times and the mainstream press was to lie - to falsely claim that actually, it had nothing to do with political polarization and his party was the one that had incited the shooting of a member of Congress, Gabby Giffords, as he lay in hospital with potentially fatal injuries. (This was literally the exact diametric opposite of the truth - Giffords was shot by someone who had a weird grudge against her personally which had nothing to do with national politics.) There certainly wasn't any kind of concern about the radicalization behind it.

In the eyes of the New York Times and the mainstream elite whose views it represents, it's like someone on the wrong side going to a protest and turning around when the property destruction starts is more violent, more dangerous, more in need of suppression by Facebook than someone on the correct side actually filling one of the other side's Congressman full of lead.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#77

Post by Spivak »

mrweasel wrote: post #14

So is Google going to throw them out of the Play store? What's the argument for banning one social media and not another. Where do you draw the line that manages to keep Facebooks app available, while still being able to defend the removal of Parler. I know many will think I'm defending Parler, I'm not. I just don't see why Facebook is continuously given a free pass for all the horrible stuff on their platform. Is it…

Social networks that reach a critical mass of regular people become too big to block. And social networks that exist as landing pads for people who aren’t tolerated on mainstream platforms naturally have targets on their backs.

I really don’t think this is liberal vs conservative, left vs right. Mainstream social networks are full of conservatives. YouTube is basically Fox News mixed with Drudge Report once you start down that path. Even Reddit —- once you get past the post titles you realize that Reddit commenters are actually right leaning now. They look different than the stereotypical portrayal of gods and guns conservatives but the views are the same save a few social issues. Scott Alexander called them the “grey tribe” and I expect they’ll start being called the “new right” eventually. HN is basically entirely left-passing conservatives.

But then there’s this tiny subgroup of legit insane people who with nothing better to do than get angry at the internet all day and push conspiracy theories. They keep getting passed around and banned from social networks while more mainstream right-wing talking heads use them as the poster children for their victim complex.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#78

Post by IgorPartola »

nhumrich wrote: post #66
mimikatz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people, not Hacker news people, but real people like Facebook. That's the reason.

real people like parlor.

Knives can be used to kill people. But a lot more knives are used in cooking. So we see knives as tools that are relatively rarely used to do bad things and mostly used for good things.

Guns are mostly used to kill people. So we see them as tools only useful for that purpose. That’s why you can buy a set of knives on Amazon but not a 10 pack of Glocks.

Facebook is seen closer to knives. Parler was mostly guns.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#79

Post by missedthecue »

inanutshellus wrote: post #9

Facebook is intrinsically a passion-group generator. Where "passion" is the edges of "adoration" to "enmity". Anything that "triggers" you (to interact w/ the platform), be it pottery or anarchy, FB will find "your people". If you are prone to fits of passion, FB will find your passion-mates... mated to you by fear, anxiety, rage ... or joy.

I don't think Facebook really works this way. People get impassioned, sure, but I don't think the platform generates it. Compare this to something like Twitter, a machine deliberately devised to maximize outrage and fights, where the top trending content is almost always clapbacks and 'mic-drop' put-downs. It's a curiosity that they don't get any of the blame for "destroying democracy", while Facebook takes all of it.

My suspicion is that journalists use Twitter more, and enjoy their audience and aura of authority they get through the Verified system, so they have an incentive to protect the platform against regulatory action.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#80

Post by ttt0 »

greesil wrote: post #68
rangoon626 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile the whole “if you don’t like Facebook moderation go build your own” bit.

You can still do it. Get your own server in a colo that's owned by someone friendly to your political viewpoint. Keep some spares in a closet for when the feds inevitably come when someone uses your unmoderated platform to plan crimes.

> Get your own server in a colo that's owned by someone friendly to your political viewpoint.

...until someone up in the food chain will either shut that down too or force them to disassociate with you.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/25/21532883/paypal-cuts-tie...

> Keep some spares in a closet for when the feds inevitably come when someone uses your unmoderated platform to plan crimes.

Section 230.

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