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Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

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Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#71

Post by icy »

DanBC wrote: post #65
icy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a phenomenon exclusively on Twitter (and off late, the fediverse). I don't think I've seen it anywhere else.

Some NHS organisations have started using them. https://twitter.com/EddyLaurie1/status/1240346693931057153?s... It's important for healthcare safety that people feels safe to discuss their gender and pronoun badges are a small sign that the wearer is a safe person to speak to.

I should think that in healthcare, of all places, your birth sex matters more than what your gender identity is -- for your own safety, even.

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#72

Post by jjice »

ceejayoz wrote: post #21
hoka-one-one wrote: post #13

I work in tech, not politics

"Tech isn't political" is itself a political stance. (And a hard to support one, IMO.)

I think it depends what part of "tech" you work in. I worked for a small electrical engineering firm building software to configure our devices. We were pretty apolitical overall, but I guess you could say we had a slight interest in legalized marijuana because our product was being used in the grow industry. Even then, no politics ever arised except for the occasional quip during a meeting.

The place I currently work does software in a trade industry (think electricians, plumbers, etc) and there is pretty much no politics either.

Outside of "big tech", I think the political portion decreases dramatically, at least for the employees. I'm sure owners have to focus on tax laws and such, but as an employee writing code, not so much.

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#73

Post by kevbin »

eplanit wrote: post #62

Companies are tripping over each other to satisfy the woke mob, and it's ridiculous. This is part of that, and my advice is to not participate -- don't give air to unwanted things, and don't legitimize them. Or, if anyone has a sense of humor (very hard to find amongst the woke) encourage a large number of people to choose whimsical pronouns -- makes the silliness of it apparent.

“Eet”/“Xu”

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#74

Post by ceejayoz »

IMTDb wrote: post #66

I am like your colleagues. As humans we have been hardwired to recognize biological males from biological females for million of years. So when I speak to someone wether in person or online, I will use the pronouns associated with their biological gender, or masculine if I really don't know. That is the way I have always done so that I can focus as much as possible on what I have to say rather than how I say it. Cont…

There are quite a few things we're biologically hardwired to do that are not appropriate in the workplace that you presumably manage to rise above.

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#75

Post by gruez »

raxxorrax wrote: post #30

We are not required to do this by business, however there is now state legislature that requires that any job posting must include explicit naming of genders male/female/diverse. That is männlich/weiblich/divers in German (m/w/d abbreviated, you will find it on every job posting or you face serious fines). Most people call it männlich/weiß/deutsch already, which translates to male/white/German. I don't think it is a…

> We are not required to do this by business, however there is now state legislature that requires that any job posting must include explicit naming of genders male/female/diverse. That is männlich/weiblich/divers in German (m/w/d abbreviated, you will find it on every job posting or you face serious fines).

I don't get, why would job postings (as in, the ad for the job, not the candidate's application for the job) require gender? Are the job postings like "we want a programmer and we expect him to be male"?

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#76

Post by DanBC »

icy wrote: post #71
DanBC wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some NHS organisations have started using them. https://twitter.com/EddyLaurie1/status/1240346693931057153?s... It's important for healthcare safety that people feels safe to discuss their gender and pronoun badges are a small sign that the wearer is a safe person to speak to.

I should think that in healthcare, of all places, your birth sex matters more than what your gender identity is -- for your own safety, even.

Yes, that's the point. When Bob goes for treatment and everyone assumes he's cis-male but he's actually trans-male they may offer needless screening. Bob needs to feel safe to be able to say "I've never had a prostate".

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#77

Post by p2detar »

formerly_proven wrote: post #25

Diversity questions aside, some given names are ambiguous. Some names are not, but may have different (assumed) genders depending on the language. In those cases it may be helpful to add a "Mrs"/"Mr" or similar, just to save people the embarrassment of addressing a woman as a man or vice versa. And isn't a "Mr"/"Mrs" a sort of pronoun spec as well? You're saying "use the usual pronouns for females/males".

This is fine, but here's a possible potentially technical (not political) issue that I see.

Looking at it from the practical point of view, I now have to address that person by their pronoun in the contents of the E-mail I write. So, what happens if there are several people included and some or many of them each have their own preferred pronoun. I have to thread very carefully in every part of my Email not to step on someone's toes. I mean I'm looking at this table [0] here and I imagine I have to make a look up table for everyone that uses a pronoun should I write stuff to several parties.

Is this really practical? Are there any better solutions?

0 - https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#78

Post by alpaca128 »

pX3q54Q55945w7E wrote: post #39

I work at a very left-leaning SV unicorn. Most people don’t advertise their pronouns, but quite a few do. I’m mildly peeved by this. To me the practice feels like taking off one’s lower body half garment to expose the genitalia. “See? This is my gender.” What difference does this make in a professional context? Our culture has put so much emphasis on treating all genders (or no gender) exactly the same: that was the…

Frequent communication with coworkers is part of doing the job, and just like you wouldn't refer to a male boss with "Mrs." some people would prefer being called differently than what most would assume by default. I don't see how that is wrong.

And usually it's not about being "whatever you want", people are what they are.

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#79

Post by gruez »

formerly_proven wrote: post #25

Diversity questions aside, some given names are ambiguous. Some names are not, but may have different (assumed) genders depending on the language. In those cases it may be helpful to add a "Mrs"/"Mr" or similar, just to save people the embarrassment of addressing a woman as a man or vice versa. And isn't a "Mr"/"Mrs" a sort of pronoun spec as well? You're saying "use the usual pronouns for females/males".

Follow up question, given that women have been in the workplace for 50+ years, why wasn't it an issue back then, and only presented itself now?

Re: Ask HN: Does your employer want you to state pronouns in email signature?

#80

Post by hasmolo »

strmpnk wrote: post #69
futureshock wrote: post #18

I am LGBT and not in favor of it being pressured or de-facto compulsory. I would hope it was popular enough that people understood what it meant so that trans people can have more acceptance and understanding. I don't have it in my email signature, but if my company released a policy saying it was acceptable, I might add it. I would probably not add it without management permission since it is their choice how they w…

I’m trans and agree with this, though I offer another reason to avoid making it compulsory. Before I came out I felt very awkward with regards to my own pronoun display. I wasn’t ready on one hand and on the other I felt terrible seeing other pronouns even if it was attached to my deadname only. I’d encourage people to do it if they’re comfortable with it on a personal level as it can be a very personal thing. I also…

this is very true, when you indicate a pronoun preference that doesn't sync up with your presentation of gender, people seem to take it as something you're happy to argue about or explain. there's this idea that you are now responsible to them for an explanation and justification. it's crazy.

i use they/them and have had to respond to "you don't look any different", and have to inform the person that i don't feel the need to "perform" my gender to their expectations. it's mine and it is how i want it to be, not how they envision it to be.

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