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German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

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Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#211

Post by whatatita »

aivisol wrote: post #187

> anonymous SIM cards Are anonymous SIM cards illegal in Germany? There are definitely some EU countries where you can buy a prepaid SIM card in a newspaper stand without presenting any ID and it is 100% legal.

In the UK (okay, not EU anymore but it was until recently) anonymous SIM cards are incredibly easy to come by. You can buy them in most corner shops, supermarkets, and petrol stations. Both big and small operators.

If you buy a SIM card from an operator's store they might ask for ID but they didn't the last time I did this (a couple of years ago).

When I last flew into the UK there were even prepaid SIM card vending machines, provided by the network operator, in the entrance/exit to the airport.

COntrast that with Switzerland, where I had to provide my passport to buy a SIM card.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#212

Post by Chris2048 »

Tepix wrote: post #91
martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

Alcohol is a big problem in Germany: 3 million people with alcohol issues and 74,000 yearly deaths.² Weed is considered less of a problem by the scientific community. The logical conclusion: Increase taxes on alcohol and legalize weed. -- ² https://www.dhs.de/suechte/alkohol/zahlen-daten-fakten

The negative effects of alcohol aren't evenly distributed, some people are more susceptible to alcoholism than others.

I would expect weed to be the same. As such, I don't just want to know the net negative effect, I also want to know the distribution. AFAIK weed can agitate certain mental conditions - the average joe can enjoy weed, just the expense of a minority losing their mind. I might not find that acceptable.

There's also an argument that society should seek to decrease chemical over-indulgence in general, including alcohol, and maybe fat/sugar too; legalising another drug just increases the battlefront perimeter.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#213

Post by the-dude »

nerbert wrote: post #158
brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

Rat park comes to mind. The issues are not the drugs, but our well being in society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park#Replication

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#214

Post by whatatita »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #210
cm2187 wrote: post #118

I get how these market places are used for digital goods (malware, credit cards), but I don’t understand how people can trade physical goods on those. If they have to exchange products, they must either meet in person or use the mail, either is trackable by the authorities. I see how the seller can protect himself for local transactions. He could leave the goods hidden somewhere and tell the buyer where to go. But th…

In the UK: Occasionally someone gets fined and makes it to the local newspaper and all his friends laugh at how unlucky he was. I suspect the cost for local enforcement or for the post office of preventing weed being sent via mail is just too high to be considered.

The UK's domestic postal service - Royal Mail - is far too broken to even consider screening illegal packages. They make money from posting this stuff and they're too underfunded and stagnant to address it even they wanted to.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#215

Post by swirepe »

martin_a wrote: post #79
pengaru wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh... weed is not even close to the most purchased drug via the dark web. Certainly not in plant matter form. They'd have to legalize all the club/party drugs to make a dent; pills and powders, lsd.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

Legalization, probably not.

Criminalization can work. Portugal decriminalized in 2001 and overdose deaths dropped 80%. People weren't as afraid to get help.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#216

Post by jokethrowaway »

redisman wrote: post #84
TrackerFF wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with black markets - of pretty much any kind - is that they soon attract most things illegal. A good chunk of the population would probably be OK with them only selling weed, but then you have stolen credit cards, weapons, and what not. And the more unscrupulous the seller is/becomes, the worse it gets. It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dea…

> It's like with small-town drug dealers. Kids seek them to purchase weed, but then after a while the dealer is trying to push other stuff on them. This sounds like one of those 90's scary stories. Do you also believe that the first dose is free?

Anecdotal evidence: I met someone on the road (massive city, never saw the guy again) who tried to sell me some weed. I didn't want it and he ended up gifting me a small amount.

That said, I think the gateway drug phenomenon is a ridiculous theory.

There are people who are going to try any drug they can and there are people who are going to research the subject and just do drugs they deem to be safe / not addictive.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#217

Post by whatatita »

KraftKacke wrote: post #203
arez wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honeypots are not allowed in germany afaik. The police is not allowed to sell drugs or ask people for drugs and then take them in

Also, drug laws are saner than in then US (apart from cannabis legalisation) and nobody is out to get you for minor amounts of any drug. Even getting caught selling drugs will get you locked up guaranteed, if you don't pair that with criminal conspiracy. However, buying or selling weapons is no joke here.

It's pretty similar over the border in Switzerland too, with the exception of looser gun control laws.

You can buy an amount of weed here (for personal) use that would absolutely get you convicted with "intent to supply" in the UK.

My weed smoking friends were worried they wouldn't be able to pick up when they came to visit. It was not a problem.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#218

Post by zaarn »

oji0hub wrote: post #179
zaarn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, the buyer can just claim they didn't know who ordered the package or what was in it. It's not a crime to pick up your mail.

You can. And the court can ignore that, which they routinely do, and convict you anyway.

The court still needs good proof that you intended to receive the package. If they don't have proof, there isn't much for a conviction to stand on and the next instance should slap it back hard.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#219

Post by jokethrowaway »

martin_a wrote: post #79
pengaru wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh... weed is not even close to the most purchased drug via the dark web. Certainly not in plant matter form. They'd have to legalize all the club/party drugs to make a dent; pills and powders, lsd.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

It's not even about hoping people will use them responsibly, it's about giving people personal responsibility.

What we need to decouple are costs on society for people that decide to endanger themselves by shifting socialised health care to a voluntary basis.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#220

Post by cnity »

pasabagi wrote: post #117
quchen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. Like for alcohol, I doubt that would work. Some substances are simply hard to use responsibly, some offer unique ways of escapism (especially during a lockdown), many people lack restraint. I don’t imagine the number of people dependent on substances would go down, it would probably just diversify. In the end, I think it’s very hard to…

I think alcohol works better as a counter-argument. In Germany, it is not only legal, but it is also legal to sell in 'bubblegum flavour party boxes', obviously aimed at children. It is legal to sell at checkout, so after a recovering alcoholic is tired out by all the shopping they can be tempted by a little bottle of vodka or whatever. Despite this, and a social culture that revolves around drinking, the vast majori…

This makes the assumption that the usage patterns for all drugs matches alcohol. It's more likely that alcohol simply really is not that addictive or harmful (compared to "harder" drugs like meth or cocaine).
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