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Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

theguardian.com

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Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#21

Post by DangitBobby »

trhway wrote: post #7
DangitBobby wrote: post #2

It's hard to know what's right. It feels like letting the lies continue to spread is tearing out democracy apart.

>It feels like letting the lies continue to spread is tearing out democracy apart. and the solution of course is "censorship will be increased until free speech and democracy improves".

Isn't this a relatively censorship-free time compared to, say, the 60s? If I wanted to spread some nonsense, I had to get approval from a publisher or editor or radio or TV station that would allow me to put it out there.

Now, anyone can say anything for all to see, with the occasional purging of public forums. You can't argue that there's no censorship, but I certainly argue that there's much less.

Have we always been proclaiming that free speech is being eroded, or is this merely a product of our time?

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#22

Post by wnnzl »

klunger wrote: post #15

This is absurd. Twitter etc are private companies and can do what they want wrt their user's accounts. If they don't want their far-right politicians getting censored, then they can ban those platforms from the country completely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

of course, you can always create your own social platform, and then if some hosting company decides to ban you, you can always create your own, and have own internet as well right?

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#23

Post by AnHonestComment »

klunger wrote: post #15

This is absurd. Twitter etc are private companies and can do what they want wrt their user's accounts. If they don't want their far-right politicians getting censored, then they can ban those platforms from the country completely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Twitter can cease offering service in Poland if they don’t like it.

Poland has (wisely) decided social media is like telephones and you can’t stop providing service because of what customers say, as long as it is legal. Good for them.

Poland is a sovereign country — Twitter doesn’t get to tell them how to act. That’s “tail wags dog”.

Social media companies blatantly exerted themselves as political entities — and now they’re facing “common carrier” regulation from existing political entities who don’t like that.

Again, if Twitter is uncomfortable being a common carrier for Polish social media — they’re free to exit the market and offer their services elsewhere.

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#24

Post by OneGuy123 »

klunger wrote: post #15

This is absurd. Twitter etc are private companies and can do what they want wrt their user's accounts. If they don't want their far-right politicians getting censored, then they can ban those platforms from the country completely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

This is a naive argument: the "X is a private company and can do anything they want" is completely wrong when you can affect hundreds of millions of people with a few click through your platform.

Once a company can affect X million+ people they become a direct manipulator of societal/democratic opinion.

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#25

Post by jopsen »

klunger wrote: post #15

This is absurd. Twitter etc are private companies and can do what they want wrt their user's accounts. If they don't want their far-right politicians getting censored, then they can ban those platforms from the country completely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> they can ban those platforms from the country completely.

Can they do that without leaving the EU?

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#26

Post by the-dude »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #10
danaos wrote: post #8

I'm not sure this is a right move considering Poland's gov is among the most authoritarian in the West. On the other hand Merkel have said that Trumps Twitter ban is problematic. There is no silver bullet here.

Yes, people need to know the motivations - the current polish government basically won the election on spreading hoaxes on social media (Facebook) and heavily polarizing the population on LGBTI, migrant wave, abortion laws and other topics.

The LGBTI issue is heavily polarized in NL too : if you don't buy 100% into it, you are assumed to be a fascist.

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#27

Post by latch »

klunger wrote: post #15

This is absurd. Twitter etc are private companies and can do what they want wrt their user's accounts. If they don't want their far-right politicians getting censored, then they can ban those platforms from the country completely. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Poland is a country. They aren't responsible for upholding US law. They can do what they want to companies that decide to operate in Poland. Not only can they have their cake and eat it too, they will - unless said companies stop operating there.

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#28

Post by doctor_eval »

All I see lately is people conflating the right to free speech with the right to be heard.

Free speech means that you can't be put in jail for something you say. That's it.

But nobody has an entitlement to be amplified. That's not a right. Nobody has the right to unfettered access to someone else's platform. That's never, ever been the case. You never had the right to edit the front page of a newspaper that you don't own, you don't have the right to set up a platform in the middle of some company's office to talk about your crazy ass theory, and you don't have the right to spew malicious, bad-faith shit into a twitter thread.

/rant

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#29

Post by nanna »

Unless you believe so strongly about FOS that you'd object to it in all counts, eg ISIL recruitment material and propeganda, then your argument is really about whether these Trump accounts have crossed a line of legitimacy, not FOS. If they're involved in pushing for armed, violent insurrection against the US government, then give one credible argument for why you'd defend them, but not ISIL doing the same.

Re: Poland plans to make censoring of social media accounts illegal

#30

Post by DangitBobby »

julienreszka wrote: post #3
DangitBobby wrote: post #2

It's hard to know what's right. It feels like letting the lies continue to spread is tearing out democracy apart.

Why do you think lies continue to spread?

First, as always, we rely on authority to fill in our knowledge gaps for us. But the authority that we've come to trust has an estranged relationship with the truth.

Second, with widespread instant communication, you can choose to listen to just about anyone to trust as an authority. And with so many voices saying so many things (without vetting their own knowledge), you have your pick of the "facts" that you enjoy most.

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