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Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget the 10.25% sales tax. This puts the combined marginal tax rate at 59.85%. (24 + 9.3 + 7.65 + 7.65 + 1 + 10.25)

Only if you buy stuff, though. Which was hard this year in particular, and not terribly useful once basic needs are met.

But one of the reasons why buying stuff was so hard last year (which I imagine is what you meant) was because people were buying a lot more stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because otherwise outputs go down, with people naturally making effort to do whatever it takes to qualify for the best compensation, rather than actually doing something productive (as high outputs is not it). As the result, the whole economy (and thus, society) struggles. Check history of the Soviet Union - it was a glaring issue there.

[flagged]

Please stop posting flamewar comments to HN and please don't take threads on generic ideological tangents. We've had to ask you this before.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#493
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to address the hegemony point beyond I disagree on the need or even effectiveness of US military. But I would want to point out the curious phrasing and of your first paragraph and what that says about USA way of thinking. All these points are business targeted while all european points are individual targeted.

> But I would want to point out the curious phrasing and of your first paragraph and what that says about USA way of thinking. All these points are business targeted while all european points are individual targeted. I don't think there is anything curious about this way of thinking. And US hegemony plays directly into this! Pre-World Wars, European nations had their colonies and their militaries and the priority of…

> However, its a fundamental mistake to assume that a Government can provide effective social services without having a strong economy. Strong economies require successful businesses.

Umm... I would say the social services in european countries are pretty successful.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's papa elon who made $2.3B in 2018. Though, I agree, that's a massive outlier :) Zaslav at Discovery was next in line with $129M total comp in 2018 [1]. Sounds like Satya needs to ask for a raise ;) [1] https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/discovery-ceo-david-z...

You’re confusing compensation with stock appreciation.

One might guess that all the random labels you put before the numbers makes few difference. At the end of the day, it’s a large gap in incomes.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to believe a job on the same company can be fulfilling for 20+ years. I don't see why not. I have never worked for small companies (always 25k+ sizes ) so my view may be skewed but the scope of these companies are so large that changing a project can mean totally different ways of working and sometimes totally different industries. Can it be that it's easier in europe to change your job context within the…

It's not KPI chasing. I've grown _so_ much after each job/career change that I often wonder how long would it take me to grow by same amount if I'd stay at a single job (I don't have that answer yet but I'm sure longer). Changing jobs every 5 years-or-so is forcing yourself to learn a new culture and new set of skills.

> It's not KPI chasing. I've grown _so_ much after each job/career change that I often wonder how long would it take me to grow by same amount if I'd stay at a single job (I don't have that answer yet but I'm sure longer).

I don't know why you are so sure. I work with plenty of europeans who have spent 10+ years in a single company. They seem pretty smart and their ways of thinking are pretty much on par with my american counter parts. If you have some source to cite on this except for personal experience, which is tainted by the culture around you, that would be great.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making 100K in California, your marginal tax rate is: - Federal: 24% - State: 9.3% - FICA: 7.65% (6.2% social security, 1.45% medicare) - SDI: 1% This gets you to 42%. Your employer matches the FICA payments too, so that's closer to 50% of your take-home pay. Once you make enough to pay off the regressive FICA taxes ($142K) you get bumped back down to "just" the mid-high 30% range briefly, until you hit $16…

This is slightly misleading. The federal tax rate is a tiered system, meaning a portion of your income is taxed at a certain rate and income that exceeds that tier is taxed at a different rate after that and so on. The federal tax rate is much lower if you account for that.

Op did say “marginal rate”

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My net salary is just over 1000€ That's really low, even for poorer European countries. Decent middle-level software engineer in, let's say, Ukraine (no offense meant - it is a good country, just isn't one famous for high incomes), easily makes at least 2k (and I say "at least" - that's awfully underpaid). > that means that i'd need anywhere from ~8 to ~14 years to save as much as they could in a year That's a bit…

Agreed, my particular situation might be caused by the fact that i initially started working at my present company before finishing my bachelor's and am currently working on finishing my master's. Since the initial salary i was hired with was even lower, it has never quite caught up - job hopping might address that. But even so, the average net salary in this country is even lower than that (overall, not for software…

I was in the same position when I started working at the first company.

They just continued to pay the same salary after I graduated.

Until you reach senior level, the best strategy for maximising salary is to switch to better paying jobs every ~2 years.

Also, I assume you are from Latvia as you have LV in your username - 1k is waaay to low. I have friends making 3.5k eur a month. You can find mid level positions that pay more than 2k/m

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#498

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

As another comment said: to pursue passions that do not pay well.

The most scarce resource is time. Switching job would presumably require more work from me at least temporarily. I'd perhaps need to commute initially at least, for example.

I'd like to know this: if I got 2x the pay in the US, could I instead ask to work 1/2 and get the current pay level I have?

Most likely no, right? So in what way is that higher pay actually helping me pursue passions? I'd be working at least as much as I do now, and most likely more, for that money.

When exactly are those passions supposed to be pursued? When retiring? I'm pursuing that now. I have had 6-8weeks off in summer the last 10 years. I like to travel, etc.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What isn't? Volatile market value, risks of breakdowns and fires and previously undiscovered structural flaws, fires, natural distasters, etc. It's putting a lot of your eggs in one basket, which in investment terms is same as foregoing diversification, ie taking on a lot of risk for no corresponding increase in returns. Depending on jurisdiction, risk of unfair treatment in a divorce. High transaction costs when cha…

Home process in the US are historically very stable. I would think this is also true in Europe? As for diversification, your house shouldn’t be your only investment. As for fires and natural disasters, this is why insurance exists. Owning a home isn’t for everyone, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly risky about it as far as investments go.

You should also consider the liquidity risk when selling a house. The MSFT stock is traded thousands of times per day, so there is strong consensus on its price. A house like yours in a neighborhood like yours is maybe traded once per year, so there will be less consensus and you would have to wait longer for a suitable buyer or discount the price.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#500

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

A lot of folks here are calling out the lower pay for SWEs in Europe and Canada as a failure - but also praise the low wealth inequality and low income inequality in Europe and Canada. You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money. Well, this is a lot like the housing conversation in the US. "I want my house to go up in value, and be a great investment!" Also: "Why…

> You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money.

You can, if you give the other groups a ton of money too.

Wages in Europe have stagnated compared to GDP [1] too, so it's not unreasonable to fight for higher wages.

[1]: https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0289-labour...

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