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New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

spectrum.ieee.org

201–210 of 233 posts

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#201
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things have improved a lot. Remember how long it took to boot a 2009 PC. I suspect if hardware perfromance stagnates then software optimisation will develop again.

Counter example: a C64 booted pretty much instantly back in 1983 ;) You could load and start an entire game on that thing (albeit from a ROM cartridge) in less time than a 2000-era PC took to just POST :D So PCs were a regression in performance in that regard compared to 1980s home computers and micros.

20 years ago IS a 2000-era PC.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#202
post #151
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For single thread performance.

Moore's laws has nothing to do with how fast a chip is. It deals with how many transistors you can fit in a given area. This can equate to a faster chip because you now can do more at once. However, we hit the frequency limits a while ago for silicon. Particularly, parasitic capacitance is a huge limiting factor. A capacitor will start to act like a short circuit the faster your clock is. Moore's law has a little mor…

Since it can't go forever - it is time to update its definition to reflect what we are doing with computing now - adding cores and improving energy efficiency. No?

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#203

If it ever gets to home computing, it will get to data center computing far sooner. What does a world look like where data center computing is roughly 100x cheaper than home computing?

You could play video games on server farms and stream the output to your TV. You just need a $15 controller instead of a $1500 gaming PC. :)

You're describing a service that already exists, Google Stadia.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#204

If it ever gets to home computing, it will get to data center computing far sooner. What does a world look like where data center computing is roughly 100x cheaper than home computing?

Dumb terminals everywhere. A huge upgrade of high-speed infrastructure across the US since everyone will need high throughput and low latency. Subscriptions will arise first, as people fucking love predictable monthly revenue - and by people I mean vulture capitalists, and to a lesser degree, risk-averse entrepreneurs (which is almost an oxymoron...), both of whom you can see I hold in low regard. Get ready for a "$3…

The great thing about capitalism is that it replaces bad services with good ones. Only exceptions are natural monopolies that the state fails to regulate, which datacenters are not.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

In the future, I don't see why there's anything holding us back from splitting a bunch of atoms and having tons of cheap energy.

Nuclear fission has well-known drawbacks and risks that are fundemantal, they will never be engineered away (risk of catastrophic explosion, huge operating costs, risk of nuclear waste leakage, risk of nuclear weapon proliferation). Why do you think the future will be significantly different from the present in this regard?

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#206
I'm one of the authors of the published paper that IEEE Spectrum referred to in the post. First off, thanks for posting! We're so delighted to see our work garner general interest! A few friends and relatives of mine mentioned that they came across my work by chance on Hacker News. I already noticed the excellent questions and excellent responses already provided by the community.

This comment might get buried but I'd just like to mention a few things:

- Indeed, we took into account the additional energy cost of cooling in the "80x" advantage quoted in the article. This is based on a cryocooling efficiency of 1000 W at room temperature per Watt dissipated at cryotemps (4.2 Kelvin). This 1000W/W coefficient is commonly used in the superconductor electronics field. The switching energy of 1.4 zJ per device is quite close to the Landauer limit as mentioned in the comments but this assumes a 4.2 K environment. With cryocooling, the 1000x factor brings it to 1.4 aJ per device. Still not bad compared to SOTA FinFETs (~80x advantage) and we believe we can go even lower with improvement in our technology as well as cryocooling technology. The tables in Section VI of the published paper (open-access btw) goes on to estimate what a supercomputer using our devices might look like using helium referigeration systems commercially available today (which have an even more efficient ~400W/W cooling efficiency). The conclusion: we may easily surpass the US Department of Energy's exascale computing initiative goal of 1 exaFLOPS within a 20-MW power budget, some thing that's been difficult using current tech (although HP/AMD's El Capitan may finally get there, we may be 1-2 orders of magnitude better assuming a similar architecture).

- Quantum computers require very very low temps (0.015 K for IBM vs the 9.3 K for niobium in our devices). With the surge in superconductor-based quantum computing research, we expect new developments in cryocooling tech which would be very helpful for us to reduce the "plug-in" power.

- Our circuits are adiabatic but they're not ideal devices hence we still dissipate a tiny bit of energy. We have ideas to reduce the energy even further through logically and physically reversible computation. The trade-off is more circuit area overhead and generation of "garbage" bits that we have to deal with.

- The study featured only a prototype microprocessor and the main goal was to demonstrate that these AQFP devices can indeed do computation (processing and storage). Through the experience of developing this chip, it helped revealed the practical challenges in scaling up, and our new research directions are aggressively targetting them.

- The circuits are also suitable for the "classical" portion of quantum computing as the controller electronics. The advantage here is we can do classical processing close to the quantum computer chip which can help reduce the cable clutter going in/out of the cryocooling system. The very low-energy dissipation makes it less likely to disturb the qubits as well.

- We also have ideas on how to use the devices to build artificial neurons for AI hardware, and how we can implement hashing accelerators for cryptoprocessing/blockchain. (all in the very early stages)

- Other superconductor electronics showed super fast 700+ GHz gates but the power consumption is through the roof even before taking into account cooling. There are other "SOTA" superconductor chips showing more Josephson junction devices on a chip... many of those are just really long shift-registers that don't do any meaningful computation (useful for yield evaluation though) and don't have the labyrinth of interconnects that a microprocessor has.

- There are many pieces to think about: physics, IC fabrication, analog/digital design, architecture, etc. to make this commercially viable. At the end of the day, we're still working on the tech and trying to improve it, and we hope this study is just the beginning of some thing exciting.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#208
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things have improved a lot. Remember how long it took to boot a 2009 PC. I suspect if hardware perfromance stagnates then software optimisation will develop again.

Counter example: a C64 booted pretty much instantly back in 1983 ;) You could load and start an entire game on that thing (albeit from a ROM cartridge) in less time than a 2000-era PC took to just POST :D So PCs were a regression in performance in that regard compared to 1980s home computers and micros.

It booted instantly and then you waited 15 minutes to play pac-man.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#209
post #59
post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

As processing power cheapens, programmers will settle for lazy and inefficient code for everyday consumer applications. It will be easier to be a programmer, because you can get away with writing shitty code. So wages will fall and the prestige of being a software developer wanes. The jobs requiring truly elite skill and understanding will dwindle and face fierce competition for their high pay. Before this happens, I…

Hardware efficiency is only relevant for programming effort today in a few industries, and even there, only in a few specific applications.

If you gave me a processor that could run instructions instantly, my product's release would at best be brought forward 1-2 weeks.

The largest efforts in programming are to do with translating requirements into code. Efficiency is a part of that, and there are obviously problems where it dominates, but there are many other difficulties even when it isn't.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could play video games on server farms and stream the output to your TV. You just need a $15 controller instead of a $1500 gaming PC. :)

You're describing a service that already exists, Google Stadia.

And GeForce Now, it was a joke ;)
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