Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#261

Post by patrickg » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:55 PM UTC

mapgrep wrote: post #225

wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

I really appreciate your reply and the global perspective! That said, I'm not sure about Germany being approximately as rough as the U.S.. * Retirement - Our benefit is well under half of yours. The _minimum_ German pension, the floor, after reform will be 67 percent of national average wage (cites below). In the U.S., the average social security benefit is $1,153, annualized to $13,863 or about 34 percent of the ave…

That retirement you mention is only partly true (unless there is a misunderstanding). It all depends how many years you have paid into the fund. For a women with lots of breaks due to kids or for self employed people who have not opted in paying into the fund, this is getting lower and lower.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#262

Post by thomasgerbe » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:57 PM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #127

Wow, that really is incredible... I really can't imagine not being able to take a week of vacation for fear of losing my job... Do you guys in the US get time in lieu? My job is 40 hours a week, and if you work longer than that, you can take the time off later. So working fifteen minutes longer every day lets you have another week off (paid) every year, in addition to the four weeks paid holiday you get. And since ho…

Yes.

While in NY, the company I worked at encouraged people to take comp days sooner rather than later.

I usually just accumulated a bunch of hours and took extended periods of time off.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#263

Post by yxhuvud » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:58 PM UTC

kgermino wrote: post #58

chrismealy wrote: post #15

Nobody has mentioned the obvious: weak unions.

I'm not sure how much that has to do with it. I live in Chicago, no one around here would accuse the unions of being weak, but vacation time here is no different than in the south. Unless you mean on a national level (unions pushing for federal reform and what-not) than yes the unions here are weaker, but the U.S. Also tends to be more opposed to national regulations than Europe as well.

Here in Sweden the government mostly only legislated what the unions and the employer organizations already had agreed to. That went on throughout the 40's to the 70's. At that point the state legislated some things that had no prior agreement and then progress basically stopped.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#264

Post by david927 » Mon, May 23, 2011, 7:59 PM UTC

thomasgerbe wrote: post #242

david927 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not idealizing: European take home less pay and pay more in taxes -- but get huge social benefits. If you're honestly trying to argue an equivalence in US and Europe in terms of such benefits, you're crazy. Europe is a big word as each country varies. That said... In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot But, from the studies I've seen, Europeans on average spend about h…

"No, they simply have public transit -- it's not great by any means. You often have to supplement with taxi in both places." Citation needed. 99.9% of the time I was lived in NY, I used public transit instead of taxis. London and France? Underground stops running close to one and so anytime I tried staying out late I needed to walk, take a night bus, or hail a cab (which is near impossible on a Friday night).

I think you should more carefully choose your battles: It's really no contest.

Bart closes at midnight and has four stops in the heart of SF. NY has an OK metro but if you want to go cross-town, better just walk. I've spent time in NYC and lived in SF, Zurich, Berlin, Prague and London. Europe destroys on this topic. A huge percentage of people in Europe, like myself, don't own cars simply because we don't have to.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#265

Post by krschultz » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:00 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #207

krschultz wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types. The 'shutdown', or technically in my companies case the 'plant shutdown', and the 'furlough' day. At my company, the factory has 7,000 employees in one location. So many people took vacation between Christmas and New Years that the factory simply can not operate. The solution was either to only give that time off for a select group of people (pissing off most of the factory guys), or to make ever…

I was very bummed that Sun forced me to take off the week of 4th of july for the same reason. I wanted to take a week in San Diego at the beach. That's crowded any time in the summer, but after labor day, when school resumes, the weather is actually nicer in early fall (they call it "june gloom" in san diego, coastal fog is still common in early-mid summer), rentals are way easier to get, and hotel prices drop dramat…

The amazing thing to me is that that simple little policy - which probably makes a lot of sense to executives with kids at these large companies that take the week off anyway - is enough to drive me away to another company. It is definitely more cost effective to just give people more vacation than to be replacing an engineer.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#266

Post by adrianparsons » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:00 PM UTC

cmurdock wrote: post #159

enjo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point in your life that you can more easily take 3 months off to do whatever you want than when you are a "recent college grad". My biggest life regret was not realizing this at the time. I jumped into the workforce and pursued my career at 95 mph. I should have spent a year travelling.

Unless you have college loans that you start paying on immediately after leaving college... which is bordering on most people these days.

Depending on the loan, you may qualify for "Income-Based Repayment" plans, which reduce monthly payments to $0 if you are making little or no money. You still accrue interest, and the crushing psychological weight of all that debt is still there, but it's definitely an option for new grads.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#267

Post by DasIch » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:00 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #231

mapgrep wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really appreciate your reply and the global perspective! That said, I'm not sure about Germany being approximately as rough as the U.S.. * Retirement - Our benefit is well under half of yours. The _minimum_ German pension, the floor, after reform will be 67 percent of national average wage (cites below). In the U.S., the average social security benefit is $1,153, annualized to $13,863 or about 34 percent of the ave…

What I meant on the German and US systems is that they're both pay-in-get-something out. Germans pay about double for social security, so it's not a huge surprise that the benefits are higher. My point was not that Germans do not get more benefits, but that's it's not a large factor in contrasting wages. (i.e. if American professionals put the money into a 401k that would go into the required German pension funding,…

That time limit is two years. After that you get "Hartz IV" unless you still have enough money to live by. Sure if that happens you may have to drastically change your lifestyle but if you are well educated getting a job in under two years should be achievable.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#268

Post by anamax » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:05 PM UTC

chrisaycock wrote: post #186

mapgrep wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason American workers say they can barely survive on $60k a year is that they pay out of pocket for things German workers can take for granted: * Comfortable retirement - 401k contributions. Yes America has social security but it's not a ton of money compared to other national pensions and if you're young you worry about it not being around at all by the time you need it. * Unemployment - You should probably ha…

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

> The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens.

Actually, there is, it's called medicaid.

What? You make too much to be eligible for medicaid? That tells us that you don't need the safety net that it provides.

And, even without medicaid, it's possible to get free health care for fundamentals in the US. No, "free" doesn't cover everything, but no healthcare system does.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#269

Post by jrockway » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:05 PM UTC

cmurdock wrote: post #159

enjo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no point in your life that you can more easily take 3 months off to do whatever you want than when you are a "recent college grad". My biggest life regret was not realizing this at the time. I jumped into the workforce and pursued my career at 95 mph. I should have spent a year travelling.

Unless you have college loans that you start paying on immediately after leaving college... which is bordering on most people these days.

I doubt it. State schools are still pretty cheap. After a minimal scholarship, UIC cost me something like $1300 a semester. That ends up being a not-that-crippling debt.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#270

Post by yxhuvud » Mon, May 23, 2011, 8:06 PM UTC

mikeleeorg wrote: post #160

Out of curiosity, anyone know if sabbaticals common in Europe? A software developer I know worked tirelessly for 4 years at a large corporation before burning out. He may have taken a week off here & there, but was always answering his emails. He finally requested a sabbatical. Those are rare and very tough to get, but his manager fought for him and off he went. He returned refreshed, though he left the job shortly t…

Here in Sweden we are allowed to do it, but it generally isn't done.

Though we have a guy at work that have managed to convince our employer to give hime an extra day off every week (without pay though, but he doesn't need the cash)