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German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

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Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#41

Post by seibelj »

skinkestek wrote: post #36
seibelj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any store that sells knives contributes to murders. I would argue that alcohol is the biggest date rape drug by a large amount. Do you advocate banning alcohol?

> Any store that sells knives contributes to murders. Many countries has laws that regulate the sale of certain kinds of knives that are created primarily for use in fights/combat. > I would argue that alcohol is the biggest date rape drug by a large amount. Do you advocate banning alcohol? Good point. There's still an order of magnitude or two between those options. Also the alcohol is mostly consumed voluntarily un…

The most common "date rape" drug (GHB) is consumed by many not for sexual violence, but for its depressive effects. I have observed several people who used it because of how it made them feel.

So again, saying drug dealers are selling drugs specifically to help rapists, is no more likely than the liquor store specifically selling to wife beaters and drunk drivers.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#43

Post by seibelj »

Barrin92 wrote: post #38
seibelj wrote: post #23

No matter what anyone says, I believe with every fiber of my being that simple drug dealing is a victimless crime. Free people choose to purchase and consume drugs to their own detriment (benefit). All violence related to the sale of drugs is ancillary to the fact some drugs (but not others - alcohol, marijuana, caffeine for starters) are illegal. https://freeross.org/

if you're dealing drugs on a black market you're not paying taxes, you may be selling drugs to children, which is definitely not a victimless crime, and you're likely facilitate all other sorts of crime and money laundering. Not to mention that some drugs are so addictive and destructive that jurisdictions have good reason to stop their distribution.

If what you are selling is illegal, there is nothing but a black market on which to sell.

There is nothing stopping the liquor store from selling alcohol to wife beaters and child abusers.

On taxes, to be honest I don't like those either, although I pay every dollar I am legally required to and actively avoid paying all taxes I can legally avoid paying. As I'm someone publicly arguing for the legalization of all drugs, my stance on that issue is not surprising.

> Not to mention that some drugs are so addictive and destructive that jurisdictions have good reason to stop their distribution.

Honestly I would rather ban videogames. I have seen many smart, hard working people whose lives have been ruined by videogames. So much wasted potential.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#44

Post by skinkestek »

seibelj wrote: post #41
skinkestek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any store that sells knives contributes to murders. Many countries has laws that regulate the sale of certain kinds of knives that are created primarily for use in fights/combat. > I would argue that alcohol is the biggest date rape drug by a large amount. Do you advocate banning alcohol? Good point. There's still an order of magnitude or two between those options. Also the alcohol is mostly consumed voluntarily un…

The most common "date rape" drug (GHB) is consumed by many not for sexual violence, but for its depressive effects. I have observed several people who used it because of how it made them feel. So again, saying drug dealers are selling drugs specifically to help rapists, is no more likely than the liquor store specifically selling to wife beaters and drunk drivers.

That's interesting, thanks!

Now a quick question for you: are you equally for second amendment rights?

The same logic applies here IMO.

FTR: I'm in favour of 2nd amendment rights (in the US at least) but not a hardliner, so I'm mentally processing now if this goes both ways and I should agree with you. I don't think so but I'm considering it.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#45

Post by de_nied »

Shared404 wrote: post #15
de_nied wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Whoops I forgot to turn my VPN on" Why would someone be using a VPN if they're using tor for the market? Why would a VPN offer any protection at all? If you're using a VPN and "SSH into one of the servers that they are already watching", then a VPN isn't going to provide anonymity.

The model would be something like User --> VPN --> Tor --> Market Assuming the VPN is trustworthy and you don't connect to Tor without it, the VPN would cover up the fact that you used Tor at all. If you normally use the VPN, but forget it one time, you are now exposed.

A VPN would not cover up the fact that you used Tor at all. Assuming you're actually utilizing SSH through sock proxies and using a VPN, you can still be fingerprinted and tracked. There are already existing databases that have established profiles for various sites. Your ISP can easily see if you're connecting to one of those sites based on the type of data you're sending. Regardless if it's encrypted.

On the other hand, if you normally do this but forget to one time, it doesn't mean you're automatically exposed. It simply means that if anyone is currently attempting to find you and have an exploit that will actually work on you, then they will be getting you directly instead of your VPN. However, even if you had a VPN, if it's a government agency then generally speaking they will be able to find you anyways. A VPN doesn't "hide" you. It's not meant to.

If you want to stay anonymous, there are several methods that can be utilized. The most obvious one is not connecting to the internet from your own home. Use the Starbucks WiFi. A more clever method would be buying slave bots and using poorly secured wifi netowrks around them to hop over one. Assume VPN connections are from companies based in countries not on friendly terms with yours. Like China/U.S.

  User -> RandomWifi -> VPN/SSH -> Slave -> SecondSlave/WifiHop -> VPN/SSH 2.0 -> Tor -> Market
This is a very basic set up. I would personally add more to it with other stuff, but it all depends on your threat model.

Small note. This assumes you're actually setting up your VPNs, not buying some "VPN service." I saw you wrote about being careful with VPNs and how "trustworthy" they are. I'm not sure why you would ever use a VPN service.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#46

Post by KMag »

seibelj wrote: post #35
skinkestek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe with every fiber of my being that simple drug dealing is a victimless crime. Quick, ugly counterexample: Date rape drugs. You can of course say that the crime is on whoever uses it but criminal neglect is a thing. Somewhat more nuanced example: Vulnerable people are still given highly addictive drugs as "marketing" from dealers. This isn't something all of those victims have chosen, so I'd say it isn't vi…

Any store that sells knives contributes to murders. I would argue that alcohol is the biggest date rape drug by a large amount. Do you advocate banning alcohol?

I think the GP means "date rape drug" to mean CNS depressants that are extremely unlikely to be used recreationally.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#47

Post by de_nied »

Shared404 wrote: post #40
bauruine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are able to do a deanonymization attack on the 3 hop Tor circuit why should a VPN protect you? They can just mount a similar attack on the one hop VPN.

Thus the requirement for the VPN to be trustworthy. What that means changes on the threat model, but for this scenario we'll say a hypothetical VPN provider in a different jurisdiction that takes Monero and has good OpSec. The reason they can do the deanonymization attack on the Tor circuit is that they have basically unlimited resources to set up nodes, and Tor is built on the assumption that the nodes are all unrel…

Check my other reply. I don't think you understand how deanonymization attacks work. It's not by governments "owning nodes." They might sometimes run the exit node, but that's for detecting certain activity, not finding people.

Plus, you can restrict what nodes are used. It's not like the public nodes are the only ones that exist.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#48

Post by seibelj »

skinkestek wrote: post #44
seibelj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most common "date rape" drug (GHB) is consumed by many not for sexual violence, but for its depressive effects. I have observed several people who used it because of how it made them feel. So again, saying drug dealers are selling drugs specifically to help rapists, is no more likely than the liquor store specifically selling to wife beaters and drunk drivers.

That's interesting, thanks! Now a quick question for you: are you equally for second amendment rights? The same logic applies here IMO. FTR: I'm in favour of 2nd amendment rights (in the US at least) but not a hardliner, so I'm mentally processing now if this goes both ways and I should agree with you. I don't think so but I'm considering it.

I'm not sure the link between the legalization of drugs argument and 2nd amendment, but yes I support the right of people to own guns. I can abide by reasonable restrictions but free people should be allowed to own firearms.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#49

Post by BelenusMordred »

loves_mangoes wrote: post #37
thelightthat wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is larger?

I'm not sure what HN's policy is on discussion of illegal marketplaces, but I imagine it's no secret that the new #1 is White House Market.

This is what I thought was easily on top originally, I don't buy weed anymore but do enjoy hanging out on /d/opsec and the other places seeing what the vibe is. Mr White is amusingly active on forums, it's so incredibly strange when he replies to you randomly with advice. For someone who works in security there's a massive difference between all the wild uninformed speculation you'll see on the clearnet and actual cybercriminals or marketplace kingpins talking about their techniques/tactics. It's an interesting world out there, these folks have serious fucking skin in the game.

Same with hugbunter who seems to have no market affiliation but obviously knows her stuff and can clearly hack a thing or two.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#50

Post by Shared404 »

de_nied wrote: post #47
Shared404 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus the requirement for the VPN to be trustworthy. What that means changes on the threat model, but for this scenario we'll say a hypothetical VPN provider in a different jurisdiction that takes Monero and has good OpSec. The reason they can do the deanonymization attack on the Tor circuit is that they have basically unlimited resources to set up nodes, and Tor is built on the assumption that the nodes are all unrel…

Check my other reply. I don't think you understand how deanonymization attacks work. It's not by governments "owning nodes." They might sometimes run the exit node, but that's for detecting certain activity, not finding people. Plus, you can restrict what nodes are used. It's not like the public nodes are the only ones that exist.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Clearly I've got gaps in my understanding, any good resources you could point me towards to study up?

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