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Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

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Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#81

Post by ianlevesque »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #77
davisr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're commending Micro$oft for sharing source code? Please! They both are completely irresponsible and push proprietary malware. Anything less than freely usable/sharable software is inadequate.

I wasn't aware that VS Code was "proprietary malware"? All the code for that is right on GitHub.[0] If you don't trust the prebuilt ones, you're free to build it from the source yourself. Want something else? Their GitHub repo list has almost 4000 repositories totaling 130 pages ![1] Just because the OS itself isn't open source[a] doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't open source a whole crap ton of stuff. And sure, Wi…

One clarification, VS Code does have closed-source components, like the python extension and remoting.

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#82

Post by [deleted] »

ianlevesque wrote: post #81
colejohnson66 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware that VS Code was "proprietary malware"? All the code for that is right on GitHub.[0] If you don't trust the prebuilt ones, you're free to build it from the source yourself. Want something else? Their GitHub repo list has almost 4000 repositories totaling 130 pages ![1] Just because the OS itself isn't open source[a] doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't open source a whole crap ton of stuff. And sure, Wi…

One clarification, VS Code does have closed-source components, like the python extension and remoting.

[deleted]

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#83

Post by shawnz »

ryukafalz wrote: post #8
eyelidlessness wrote: post #4

Prediction: this will somehow still be spun as Apple wanting to own your Mac even though you bought it and turn it into an iDevice.

No, as someone who does often criticize Apple for taking away control from their users, this is a good move. Their original action that triggered this was them wanting to own your Mac.

Agreed. Even though they obviously didn't make this change out of the goodness of their hearts, at least they correctly reacted to the public concerns about the feature.

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#84

Post by miles »

yalogin wrote: post #69
Paraesthetic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be responsible of them if they had done it in a situation where they weren't pressured into the decision by media outlets.

As much the community wants to think they are evil and want to purposefully violate trust, most often the easier explanation works very well. Its an oversight or a resourcing issue.

Tweet[1] by Apple developer Russ Bishop:

"Some system processes bypassing NetworkExtensions in macOS is a bug, in case you were wondering."

Reply[2] by David Dudok de Wit, developer of TripMode:

"Glad to see it's being reconsidered as a bug, because Apple told us it 'behaves as designed' (FB7740671 + FB7665551). And why is there an exclusion list in the first place? I'd love to know more and see this documented."

Reply[3] by Russ:

"Can't get too specific but I promise it's really mundane/boring software development stuff... like two features that interact in an unintended way kind of boring."

Comment[4] on Russ's original tweet by Sérgio Silva:

"Yes. A bug with its own configuration file /System/Library/Frameworks/NetworkExtension.framework/Resources/Info.plist ContentFilterExclusionList"

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201118140434/https://twitter.c...

[2] https://twitter.com/david_ddw/status/1329017113709842437

[3] https://twitter.com/xenadu02/status/1329030446269620224

[4] https://twitter.com/sergiojdsilva/status/1328991480657162242

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#85

Post by Sebb767 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #77
davisr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're commending Micro$oft for sharing source code? Please! They both are completely irresponsible and push proprietary malware. Anything less than freely usable/sharable software is inadequate.

I wasn't aware that VS Code was "proprietary malware"? All the code for that is right on GitHub.[0] If you don't trust the prebuilt ones, you're free to build it from the source yourself. Want something else? Their GitHub repo list has almost 4000 repositories totaling 130 pages ![1] Just because the OS itself isn't open source[a] doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't open source a whole crap ton of stuff. And sure, Wi…

> [a]: And that's a lie too. It is open source.[2] You just need a valid reason to look at it besides "I want to"

Google Search is open source as well, you just need a valid reason for them to hire you for their search team! /s

I agree with your overall comment in that Microsoft is not bad, but calling Windows 'open source' when the only ways to access it involves a long application process and a lot of money is quite a stretch. Nearly all source code is open under these definitions, as you can always pay for access, get hired, hack their servers or straight out buy the company. That's not what people usually consider open.

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#86

Post by shawnz »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #12
ryukafalz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as someone who does often criticize Apple for taking away control from their users, this is a good move. Their original action that triggered this was them wanting to own your Mac.

I sincerely doubt that was the motivation. See my kittycorner comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25771339

I don't think you are necessarily disagreeing with what they are saying.

First of all, there are surely many people who influenced the creation and release of this feature and I don't think it would be accurate to assign a single motivation to all their work.

Second, I don't think it's wrong to say that "boneheaded management cutting corners" by prioritizing the needs of other internal teams over the needs of the user is in some sense them "wanting to own your Mac". Although that is a dramatic way to describe it.

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#87

Post by m463 »

SulfurHexaFluri wrote: post #37
Paraesthetic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be responsible of them if they had done it in a situation where they weren't pressured into the decision by media outlets.

Its possible that they saw it as a purely positive move that would improve security on MacOS and then after seeing everyone's response they reevaluated its importance.

or they started getting security bugs from the fuzzer teams. (it's a hard problem to sanitize so many exectutables, and the people who use VPNs are probably high-value customers, like business people wfh)

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#88

Post by pseudalopex »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #77
davisr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're commending Micro$oft for sharing source code? Please! They both are completely irresponsible and push proprietary malware. Anything less than freely usable/sharable software is inadequate.

I wasn't aware that VS Code was "proprietary malware"? All the code for that is right on GitHub.[0] If you don't trust the prebuilt ones, you're free to build it from the source yourself. Want something else? Their GitHub repo list has almost 4000 repositories totaling 130 pages ![1] Just because the OS itself isn't open source[a] doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't open source a whole crap ton of stuff. And sure, Wi…

Source available means available to all. It's just proprietary if they can decide you can't see it.

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#89

Post by nytgop77 »

_qulr wrote: post #75
devin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link?

There's no link because the tweet was deleted soon afterward. The tweet seems to have been very ill-advised. I don't know how anyone can describe this as a "bug", because as the linked article describes, there's an explicit "ContentFilterExclusionList" in the Info.plist file with a list of the specific Apple services excluded. That's not by accident, it's by design.

bug was in the design. (or in decision leading to design)

Re: Apple removes first-party firewall exemption in macOS 11.2 beta 2

#90

Post by m463 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #38
Paraesthetic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be responsible of them if they had done it in a situation where they weren't pressured into the decision by media outlets.

Apple gives two fucks about media pressure. Their longstanding history of giving in to pressure almost exclusively is responsive to their users, either: - pro/dev users who act as their trend setters (see recent backpedals on keyboards and Mac Pro form factor) - people hacking stuff where it’s popular enough they want more influence on the UX (bootcamp)

Just search for example "apple backpedals" and it's pretty clear that Apple is not immune to the effects of publicity (like all companies)
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