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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#241

Post by yxhuvud »

rmc wrote: post #192
brown9-2 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until today I have never heard of a US company forcing employee's to use "forced shutdown" days - which I'm interpreting to mean the company telling people they have off on a certain day - as vacation days, and this is the second time (at least) it's been mentioned in this thread. How common is this exactly? Because this sounds like a company that is really, really screwing it's employees.

I think this kind of thing would almost certainly be illegal in the EU. If the company closes it's doors and you're willing to work, then they cannot take that out of your annual leave. Some countries laws (eg Ireland) explicitly allow forced closure for Christmas, it is also in several contracts (that part of your holidays must be over a certain period). This is the closest it gets in Europe.

No.

It used to be pretty common here in Sweden that factories shut off for three weeks in the middle of the summer and everyone had vacation.

The practice is getting increasingly uncommon nowadays though since factory jobs is a smaller part of the total employment force.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#242

Post by thomasgerbe »

david927 wrote: post #233
wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

We're not idealizing: European take home less pay and pay more in taxes -- but get huge social benefits. If you're honestly trying to argue an equivalence in US and Europe in terms of such benefits, you're crazy. Europe is a big word as each country varies. That said... In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot But, from the studies I've seen, Europeans on average spend about h…

"No, they simply have public transit -- it's not great by any means. You often have to supplement with taxi in both places."

Citation needed. 99.9% of the time I was lived in NY, I used public transit instead of taxis. London and France? Underground stops running close to one and so anytime I tried staying out late I needed to walk, take a night bus, or hail a cab (which is near impossible on a Friday night).

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#243

Post by afterburner »

dhughes wrote: post #87

It's no better in Canada the usual vacation time is two weeks with that increasing to three after maybe five years then after ten years it may go to four weeks but that's it it's extremely rare to see more than five weeks. The years of service are calculated for full-time positions so if you worked at a company part-time for five years and then became full-time only then does the clock start to tick towards more vaca…

Actually several sources show Canada is better than the US, although how much better depends on the source. This one below paints the rosiest picture I've seen for Canada, I've seen others show as few as 19 (for average) while show 14 for the US (same as below):

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#244

Post by matwood »

osks wrote: post #175
matwood wrote: post #67

I get 3 paid weeks of vacation per year. More would be nice, but unless I'm going to do something (spend a month in Europe for example) I get tired of being on vacation after a week or so. Also, when it comes to single days here and there my boss just tells me to take them. His way of hoping I pick up the phone on a Saturday when something breaks I guess :) I recently travelled to to the UK and France for 16 days and…

Vacation in Sweden (I think it's like this in other European countries as well, but I don't know for sure) doesn't always mean that you go away somewhere, or at least not for the entire vacation. Say if you have four continuous weeks of vacation during the summer (June to August here in Sweden), which is very common, you might be gone for a week or two, but spend the rest of the time at home. Since almost everyone ha…

Like I said above, maybe I'm weird :)

I can only relax for a few days before I get stir crazy. I need problems to solve and things to think about. It probably helps that I don't hate my job and have a lot of free time already. A long time ago I realized that I didn't want to be that person who lives for the couple times a year they get a vacation (even if you have 4 weeks I don't want to hate the other 48). Instead try to live in places where I'm on vacation all the time. Right now I'm in the mountains and at the end of the summer I'm moving back to the beach.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#245

Post by woobar »

ry0ohki wrote: post #5

Usually the only time Americans can take long vacations is between jobs. I wonder how many actually change jobs just for this reason. I asked for 4 consecutive weeks off to travel Europe once at a previous employer (I had worked there 5 years with no more then a week and a half off) and they denied the request. So I found another job and made sure I had a 4 week break between the two.

I work for a big financial co. When I asked about five consecutive weeks off they did not like it at first. But HR could not find anything against it in "Employee Handbook" (or whatever it's called). At the end they had to give it to me.

My guess is at the big corporations HR cannot just make up rules as they go. Also, they are all afraid to break any written rules. So a little push from an employee could bring desired results.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#246

Post by billswift »

gst wrote: post #119
[deleted] wrote: post #74

[deleted]

It's not the input (= work) that counts, but the output (results) that you get. A year has 52 weeks. If I take 5 weeks of vacation per year that's 10% of the time that I have. So I will be 10% less productive (if I ignore increased productivity after vacations). For me that's a reasonable trade-off. I don't live to work, but I work to live. In addition, I suggest that you look at the per capita GDP of different count…

If you look at the per capita GDP by purchasing power parity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP...) on the other hand, only oil rich nations, Singapore, and Luxembourg are higher than the US. While Sweden ranks 13th, 14th, and 17th on the different lists.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#247

Post by thomasgerbe »

leftnode wrote: post #9

There is a good article from another software developer around here who told his boss he was taking a 3 month vacation. He made the point the business needed him more than he needed it; he was a competent developer and could easily get work, didn't have any living/large financial dependencies. At first I thought it was absurd, but the more I thought about it, he was absolutely correct. Take a long vacation some time.…

I actually did that as a freelance designer.

I did some work for a start-up while doing my own before taking a month off to travel the world (literally from America > Asia > Europe). They offered to pay me to stay but I thought, "I'd rather have the amazing experience of visiting friends and understanding foreign cultures than remaining comfortable.").

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#248

Post by arethuza »

chrisaycock wrote: post #210
wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. I used to live in Britain. After having gone to doctor a few times there, I'd rather have the customer-pays model of America. I was just pointing-out that it's (obviously) expensive over here.

And my entire accident prone family has had fantastically good services from the NHS on numerous occasions...

So our anecdotes cancel out :-)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#249

Post by thomasgerbe »

officemonkey wrote: post #84
leftnode wrote: post #9

There is a good article from another software developer around here who told his boss he was taking a 3 month vacation. He made the point the business needed him more than he needed it; he was a competent developer and could easily get work, didn't have any living/large financial dependencies. At first I thought it was absurd, but the more I thought about it, he was absolutely correct. Take a long vacation some time.…

My wife has freelanced for over 15 years (before I knew her) precisely because of this. She saved up a big stash of cash, set automatic bill pays for her rent and utilities and took a two-month trip to Paris. You have to keep your expenses low (both at home and abroad) but at least you're not at work.

If you're a dev/designer, the good thing is you can work remotely, thus paying for parts of your vacation. I did the same with a two week foray in Paris: work one and half days for American companies, and then enjoyed the rest of the time there.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#250

Post by artmageddon »

wheels wrote: post #201
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

"Americans also have a weird fetish that you don't find other places about buying homes in their 20s."

This is fueled by the social taboo of living at home with your parents/family and the availability of mortgages.

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