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Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

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Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Put content online, have the students access it at their own leisure. I second this. This will allow school lessons to better resemble learning the workplace.

Unless the student is self-motivated, often 'access it at their own leisure' means never. Dealing with that currently with all my students who are failing right now because they just didn't think they needed to watch the videos/do the assignments.

Students also sit and daydream in the classroom. In college, you have to physically walk to class and take notes/do exercises. Nobody will help you or make you do it.

I've seen many students who studied hard to get in to college then drop out due to poor work ethic as there's less direction.

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#182
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "flipped classroom model" by having kids watch (or read!) lectures on material on their own Pretty much all classes before college I had were mixture of in-class exercises and teacher explaining things. It is not like teachers in high school would talk for an hour straight and then sent us home with homework. Plus, people asked questions or teacher prompted people to answer teachers questions. That does not really…

> no consequences Wouldn't the consequences be doing poorly on future assessments, or otherwise other visible ways of not understanding the material? The frustrating thing for me as a student was always either (a) when I understood the topic and was bored out of my mind sitting through explanations of it or (b) when I didn't understand the material, and was trying to, but the other students in the class/room who did…

> Wouldn't the consequences be doing poorly on future assessments, or otherwise other visible ways of not understanding the material?

1.) The younger students are, the less they are able to think far into future. And they are motivated by that far away future even less. It is too distant for them. Even adults have hard time to be motivated by far away vision. Putting things off till last moment is pretty much normal human behavior.

2.) Not really if enough students do that. If the teachers are failing everybody, then they will have to adjust expectations. But even if they dont, this means overall less learning on students part and overall ineffective school system.

3.) The teachers tends and in fact should to explain things if you did not understood them during individual reading. The flipped classroom is not supposed to have unhelpful unapproachable teacher. Teacher do try to motivate people and help them learn. If teacher theoretically abdicated to this, then yes you have consequence. But, another consequence of having such teacher is that everyone learns less, including those who are disciplined enough to do everything.

> The frustrating thing for me as a student was always either (a) when I understood the topic and was bored out of my mind sitting through explanations of it or (b) when I didn't understand the material, and was trying to, but the other students in the class/room who did understand and were bored were distracting or otherwise soaking up the instructor's attention.

I dont see how flipped classroom would solve any of these instead of making them worst. There is still a class. The explaining part is the one where you have more of similar speed. The solving exercises is part where differences in speed show up a lot and where other students talking to teacher are preventing focus the most.

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#184
post #103
post #49

Khan Academy (where I work) is definitely trying to help people achieve mastery[1][2], and we have people who create studies to test our efficacy and help inform future course development. We care about proving the efficacy of our approaches and constantly improving. We've been putting in a lot of effort over the past few years specifically to help teachers help their students achieve mastery in their subjects. One p…

If you will, could you speak more to > we have people who create studies to test our efficacy and help inform future course development. We care about proving the efficacy of our approaches and constantly improving." I'm curious how that works, what the results are. For instance, is the endpoint metric how many more students pass standardized testing? If so, how does that leak into the definition of 'mastery'?

Honestly, this is not my area of expertise (I'm a software person), so I'm going to avoid speculating too much.

Standardized testing is indeed one way that we can demonstrate efficacy:

https://www.khanacademy.org/about/impact

That page also includes studies that talk about course pass rates.

I don't know if our efficacy work necessarily changes "mastery" definitions, but I can imagine (but have no direct involvement with) these studies and smaller-scale studies are used by our pedagogy and course creators to improve how we approach the material.

Again, though, not my area of expertise :)

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#185
I teach CS in college. I've had kids. My daughter teaches in high school. And I'd like to say that I find it very shortsighted to think that remote learning for 6-year olds is even remotely comparable to remote learning for 15 year olds or 21 year olds.

They're very different age groups and please recognize that they require different approaches both to learning in general as learning online.

There no way you can discuss online learning in a generalized way across all age groups.

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#186
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMSCS is Georgia Tech's Online CS Master's program[0]. I'm starting my ninth class this term. Here's my take... Pros: - video lectures are generally pretty polished, and include animations and other visual aids to help build intuition - the course material is mostly high quality. this is the same material that on-site graduate students are presented, and the graded projects are challenging. - there is opportunity to…

I would love for that to be available in undergrad programs, and in more majors than just CS. Follow-up question: How hard is it to get into? Are there restrictions on how many students can take each class?

I was watching a podcast recently on this where they mention a 60% acceptance rate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzMVEbs8Zz0

Also link to reddit discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OMSCS/comments/ihf7w6/acceptance_ra...

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#187
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you will, could you speak more to > we have people who create studies to test our efficacy and help inform future course development. We care about proving the efficacy of our approaches and constantly improving." I'm curious how that works, what the results are. For instance, is the endpoint metric how many more students pass standardized testing? If so, how does that leak into the definition of 'mastery'?

Honestly, this is not my area of expertise (I'm a software person), so I'm going to avoid speculating too much. Standardized testing is indeed one way that we can demonstrate efficacy: https://www.khanacademy.org/about/impact That page also includes studies that talk about course pass rates. I don't know if our efficacy work necessarily changes "mastery" definitions, but I can imagine (but have no direct involvement…

That's fair, thanks for answering, cheers :)

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#188

Different people have different modes of learning, so the key is to listen to the user and ask questions in order to surface the modes they need. I grew up self-teaching myself because teachers refused to try new ways to teach me. If they tried to help me out, it would not help at all, because they didn't know how to use different perspectives or modes. I suggested several times that I would be more engaged if I coul…

>Different people have different modes of learning The empirical evidence rejects that idea.

So why do I learn things better in a different way than most other people?

You can sit me down at a handful of basic math problems and it will take me literally 3 hours to work through them, and I'll still screw them up. Or you can give me a block of wood, a hand saw, a ruler, square, and I can teach myself some trig in a few hours.

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally appalled that instead of leaning hard into a "flipped classroom model" by having kids watch (or read!) lectures on material on their own, and then working in small groups with their teacher, the US public school system has instead doubled-down on just retrofitting the classroom environment into remote hell. As a developer it's difficult enough trying to remain engaged on any remote meeting with more th…

So I'm a secondary school teacher, and I have tried this. Several times, with several classes (math and introductory chemistry/physics). The issue is the kids think of it as not having any work. So they do nothing while at home, which then means I end up having to teach the content anyway. It just doesn't work because the kids are responsible and refuse to do stuff at home, meaning I have to teach what they should've…

I sometimes was one of the students who didn't do the reading. Almost always one or more of the following was true: 1. The reading wasn't immediately relevant to getting a decent grade in the class. 2. The class was obscenely boring and in no way relevant to my future life. 3. The whole class didn't do it either so we where going to repeat the whole thing in class anyway.

Re: Ask HN: How do we build the new remote education system

#190

I'm a professor at a US university. The honest answer (at least at the university level) -- probably we don't. From what I can tell, there's very little enthusiasm for online education, on the part of either professors or students. Pretty much everyone is eager to get back to normal, and I'm fairly confident that this is exactly what is going to happen. For a dissenting perpsective, read Joshua Kim's columns at Insid…

> From what I can tell, there's very little enthusiasm for online education, on the part of either professors or students. Pretty much everyone is eager to get back to normal, and I'm fairly confident that this is exactly what is going to happen.

This is probably true from a faculty and student position. However, as an IT person for a university, nothing would get me to quit faster than being forced back into the office. I would leave this job in a heartbeat and go make WAAAAAAY more working a remote job in industry. Given current hiring freezes, budget shortfalls, and low, uncompetitive salary ranges, I don't think universities are in a position to lose many IT personnel.

I'm not the only staff member who thinks this. Universities should prepare for a mass staff exodus if they try to get us back on campus.

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