Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation • Hacker News Board

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#151

Post by axxto » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

justathrowa wrote: post #56

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I…

Please, consider seeing a professional as soon as possible. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of: it doesn't brand you as ANYTHING, any more than being diabetic or having an allergy does. There is a very good chance that a doctor can help you quickly and easily.

And you might feel at times like you don't even want to be helped, or that you don't deserve help, or that it's not worth the bother, but those are all symptoms of your problem, not consequences of it. Your judgement IS impaired. It will go away once you're in treatment. You'll be amazed at the change.

Please, talk to a professional, be very honest with them about how you're feeling and about the thoughts you are having. I know it's tough to open up and it might seem awkward, and I know it's easy to lose sight of it in these times we live in, but I promise you, there are many people out there that really want to help you, not just because it's their job, and they are more than able to do it. It will change your life.

You will get over this and come out stronger on the other side. You'll see. Best wishes, friend.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#152

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #16

After our second daughter was born with a disability and we didn’t know if she’d make it to her first birthday I threw myself into my new job utterly. I was working 7-7 almost every day, took every opportunity to travel, and in general was absent from the situation as much as my “very important job” would allow. For me I felt completely powerless at the hospital. At work I got to solve “important” problems that were…

We all learn lessons as we go. Working probably saved you some bits too, it's a compromise. Your boss was very empathetic.

Best wishes for the rest.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#153

Post by eloff » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

ivansavz wrote: post #97

eloff wrote: post #18

I think one needs to distinguish between being a workaholic for some corporation and doing it because you're starting a company or working for yourself. The former is obviously going to be painful and the latter might not even feel that much like work. Maybe I'm just justifying because I'm definitely a workaholic, and I'm in the second scenario and it feels totally sustainable. The first scenario I also did, and it w…

Yeah working for yourself is a big trap to watch out for. I have fallen for it numerous times. The problem is when you're working for yourself (or a worthy non-commercial cause) work feels more fun and worthwhile, but the health damage is kind of the same (long hours, lack of exercises, sub-optimal nutrition). Despite it "feeling good," working in this over-capacity regime ends up really inefficient (since you're tir…

I take care to eat well and exercise 4-5 times a week. I think that's critical.

I also don't do any hobbies and only see friends a few times a year - all my free time goes to my wife, which is how I manage 60 hour weeks while being married.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#154

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

bitbuilder wrote: post #145

fatnoah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For me I felt completely powerless at the hospital. At work I got to solve “important” problems that were trivial in comparison to the things I had no control over, and was rewarded for doing so. It felt good to be useful when my life felt in complete chaos outside of work. Wow, did this resonate with me. In my case, I was suffering from depression, though I didn't realize it at the time. The extreme focus required…

I'm sure a lot of us can relate. One of my best memories from my career: I was sitting at my desk at 8pm "working" because I had "so much to do". When in reality I was just dreading going home. A coworker that I barely new dropped by my desk and said "Things aren't going well at home, are they? Me either." We proceeded to head across the street to a bar to share stories. It helped immensely at that time. I make an ef…

I wonder if other cultures or other eras knew how to deal with that better.

Ignoring and distracting problems through side gigs...

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#155

Post by Izkata » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #90

markus_zhang wrote: post #6

I believe workaholists do not neccesarily love their job, but hate something else so much that they would rather find some place to take a bit of rest. I think I'm developing into one...

Now that you are not at the top, I can say it: I have the theory that boys get into programming as a form of escapism – because the external world is frustrating to them. It is certainly my case, external world has all sorts of illogic demands, things that exist but should not be explicited, social rules, or various insults and condescension, some of them because we’re boys (my sister used to tell me boys have 13% fe…

> They don’t make snarky comments. At least, when it fails, _it’s our fault_ . And we can fix it.

Certainly not alone here, this is almost the same as part of the Hacker's Manifesto:

> I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is

> cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I

> screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...

> Or feels threatened by me...

> Or thinks I'm a smart ass...

> Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...

http://phrack.org/issues/7/3.html

...this part of which also rang true to me throughout school.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#156

Post by robocat » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

axxto wrote: post #151

justathrowa wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I…

Please, consider seeing a professional as soon as possible. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of: it doesn't brand you as ANYTHING, any more than being diabetic or having an allergy does. There is a very good chance that a doctor can help you quickly and easily. And you might feel at times like you don't even want to be helped, or that you don't deserve help, or that it's not worth the bother, but those are all…

> please, consider seeing a professional as soon as possible.

Strongly agree.

> Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of: it doesn't brand you as ANYTHING, any more than being diabetic or having an allergy does

Strongly disagree. In theory it shouldn’t. However in practice it often is incredibly shameful, and we all sympathise with that.

Even your own internal song about a diagnosis can have vast negative consequences.

Friends and family can treat you like a pariah: for example many people will consciously choose not to let Reese near their kids because of some diagnoses.

Even worse the effects of being labelled (ignoring the effects of a mental issue) can be subtle and hard to see because they are socially hidden, or they are subconscious, so that one is left questioning why things happened the way they did.

I agree, it can often be positive. But I have friends that have been given labels, and who I’ve witnessed negative outcomes for them, well beyond those caused by their “illness”.

The idea is to get help even though it is scary... especially for suicidal thoughts. Not seeking help is very likely to be extremely harmful to many people.

Edit:

One can choose to hide a condition from friends or family, but that has other consequences, such as making one more distant or detached.

Yes, get help, but keep your eyes open and get good advice on how to share everthing with your friends and family, in the best manner you can find.

More positively, vulnerability often makes you closer to friends and with a small amount of luck helps you be a better person e.g. less judgemental about others.

All the best, there is a lot of love out there for most everyone.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#157

Post by r00fus » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

lqet wrote: post #71

honkycat wrote: post #30

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

> "Man what's up with frank today?" > "Oh he was pulling an all-nighter doing a non-urgent task." > "Did anybody ask him to?" > "No. In fact we asked him to stop." When I am doing this, it is usually because I have the strong feeling that I am in complete control of the problem right now , hours after midnight. Two fears then kick it: will I make it to this point of control a second time in the near future (3-6 month…

After you create your masterpiece of code, do you know enough to document and understand it later (so you can pass it on to others)?

Having been in the zone, I completely sympathize with the view that productivity isn't constant; that the cost to your health is worth the leap...

Have you ever had that feeling and then realized in the morning/next day that your feeling was illusory and you actually took the harder path?

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#158

Post by jdsalaro » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #96

whatshisface wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's common among the rest of the commenters is that the rest of their life was rendered emotionally uninhabitable. If you had nothing positive outside of work, maybe you would see it the same way they did.

> If you had nothing positive outside of work Rather than having nothing positive, I think it's having negatives that they can't otherwise control.

> Rather than having nothing positive, I think it's having negatives that they can't otherwise control.

Not OP, but this critique revolves mostly around semantics and I don't find it useful or accurate. If, big if, they had something positive to look up to outside of work, they'd be less inclined to put all their energy into work. That'd be the case even with multiple negatives they couldn't control. In other words, it's the total lack of any and all upside outside of work rather than the existence of downsides that makes people feel powerless and depressed.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#159

Post by Dudeman112 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

exclusiv wrote: post #118

whalesalad wrote: post #2

I would posit that deeper psychological issues are what lead someone to workaholism (as a maladaptive coping mechanism). I believe it is a symptom of a larger issue which is what ultimately leads to the problems with mental and physical health.

That makes more sense to me than the other way around. As a workaholic, and learnaholic, I did it as a path to financial freedom and to accelerate my learning at at time I knew I had the bandwidth and will. It made me a better entrepreneur and business owner later, which is what I really wanted to do. But as I've gotten older and have a family now I've been removing obligations for my businesses. And working more nor…

Except most people don't already spend 40h per week reading books or practicing their crafts.

If they spent 47h per week doing it, people would call it unhealthy too. (or dedicated, if they have no sense of healthy temperance at all)

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#160

Post by jolmg » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

jdsalaro wrote: post #158

jolmg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you had nothing positive outside of work Rather than having nothing positive, I think it's having negatives that they can't otherwise control.

> Rather than having nothing positive, I think it's having negatives that they can't otherwise control. Not OP, but this critique revolves mostly around semantics and I don't find it useful or accurate. If, big if, they had something positive to look up to outside of work, they'd be less inclined to put all their energy into work. That'd be the case even with multiple negatives they couldn't control. In other words,…

I make the distinction from a period of my own life. I also avoided going home despite having many positives because particular uncontrollable negatives held me back. I had many reasons to want to go back, but damn if I had to face the negatives.