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New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#111

Post by ganzuul »

carlmr wrote: post #56
xvedejas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

>Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors The trend seems to be that we get only a little bit of extra utility out of a lot of extra hardware performance. When the developer upgrades their PC it's easier for them to not notice performance issues. This creates the situation where every few years you need to buy a new PC to do the things you a…

So by dropping support for old CPUs, the Linux kernel burns a bridge. That conversation makes more sense now.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#112

Post by abdullahkhalids »

andrelaszlo wrote: post #94

Not a physicist so I'm probably getting different concepts mixed up, but maybe someone could explain: > in principle, energy is not gained or lost from the system during the computing process Landauer's principle (from Wikipedia): > any logically irreversible manipulation of information, such as the erasure of a bit or the merging of two computation paths, must be accompanied by a corresponding entropy increase in no…

If your computational gates are reversible [1], then in principle, energy is not converted to heat during the computational process, only interconverted between other forms. So, in principle, when you reverse the computation, you recover the entire energy you input into the system.

However, in order to read out the output of computation, or to clear your register to prepare for new computation, you do generate heat energy and that is Landauer's principle.

In other words, you can run a reversible computer back and forth and do as many computations as you want (imagine a perfect ball bouncing in a frictionless environment), as long as you don't read out the results of your computation.

[1] NOT gate is reversible, and you can create reversible versions of AND and OR by adding some wires to store the input.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#113

Post by moosebear847 »

xvedejas wrote: post #41
b0rsuk wrote: post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

In the future, I don't see why there's anything holding us back from splitting a bunch of atoms and having tons of cheap energy.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#114

Post by mailslot »

b0rsuk wrote: post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

It’ll all be wasted. When gasoline prices plummet, everyone buys 8mpg SUVs. If power & performance gets cheaper, it’ll be wasted. Blockchain in your refrigerator.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#115

Post by mcosta »

Jweb_Guru wrote: post #100
hacknat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Just wait 10 years?

Not sure if you noticed, but Moore's Law died quite awhile ago now.

For single thread performance.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#116

Post by f1refly »

cbozeman wrote: post #49
VanillaCafe wrote: post #42

If it ever gets to home computing, it will get to data center computing far sooner. What does a world look like where data center computing is roughly 100x cheaper than home computing?

Dumb terminals everywhere. A huge upgrade of high-speed infrastructure across the US since everyone will need high throughput and low latency. Subscriptions will arise first, as people fucking love predictable monthly revenue - and by people I mean vulture capitalists, and to a lesser degree, risk-averse entrepreneurs (which is almost an oxymoron...), both of whom you can see I hold in low regard. Get ready for a "$3…

I really appreciate your pessimistic worldview, keep it up!

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#117

Post by monopoledance »

inglor_cz wrote: post #88
juancampa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference in cost of producing liquid nitrogen and liquid helium is enormous. Quick google search yields: $3.50 for 1L of He vs $0.30 for 1L of H2. So roughly 10 times more expensive.

Nitrogen is N2, though. Liquid nitrogen is cheaper than liquid hydrogen. I was able to find "1 gallon of liquid nitrogen costs just $0.5 in the storage tank". That would be about $0.12 per 1L of N2.

Edit: Didn't read the OP carefully... Am idiot. Anyway, maybe someone reads something new to them.

Nitrogen won't get you below 10°K, tho. It's solid below 63°K (-210°C).

You know things are getting expensive, when superconductors are rated "high temperature", when they can be cooled with LN2...

Helium (He2) is _practically finite, as we can't get it from the atmosphere in significant amounts (I think fusion reactor may be a source in the future), and it's critically important for medical imaging (each MRI 35k$/year) and research. You also can really store it long term, which means there are limits to retrieval/recycling, too. I sincerely hope we won't start blowing it away for porn and Instagram.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#118

Post by yazaddaruvala »

ajuc wrote: post #105
Enginerrrd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about clock speed per se. It's about the lowest possible energy expenditure to erase one bit of information (or irreversibly destroy it by performing a logical operation). The principle comes about from reasoning about entropy loss in said situations. There's a hypothesized fundamental connection between information and entropy manifest in physical law. The idea is that if you destroy one possible state of a…

> IMO, The fact that it's only 38x the minimum is MIND BLOWING. It's like if someone made a car that drives at 1/38th the light speed.

For anyone too lazy to math, its a car that can go:

28.4 million km per hour (i.e. 17.6 million miles per hour)

I wonder how much that speeding ticket would cost.

Disclaimer: Assuming the one-way speed of light is 300k km/s

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#119

Post by patagurbon »

aqme28 wrote: post #97
andrelaszlo wrote: post #94

Not a physicist so I'm probably getting different concepts mixed up, but maybe someone could explain: > in principle, energy is not gained or lost from the system during the computing process Landauer's principle (from Wikipedia): > any logically irreversible manipulation of information, such as the erasure of a bit or the merging of two computation paths, must be accompanied by a corresponding entropy increase in no…

I was curious about this too. This chip is using adiabatic computing, which means your computations are reversible and therefore don't necessarily generate heat. I'm having trouble interpreting what exactly that means though.

But you have to save lots of undesirable info in order to maintain the reversibility right? Once you delete that don't you lose the efficiency gains?

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#120

Post by rytill »

vincnetas wrote: post #34
lallysingh wrote: post #22

This sounds perfect for space. It's cold in space, power is at a premium, and it can be tough getting rid of heat.

Its a bit cold in space. But actually its really difficult to cool down things in space as there is nothing around you to transfer heat to.

I have heard this elsewhere, but when I looked into it, it seems like it’s not that big of a challenge compared to the other difficulties of space. More of just a consideration that has to be part of the design. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacecraft_thermal_control

Can anyone give an expert opinion on the difficulty of cooling in space?

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