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New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#61

Post by winter_blue »

xvedejas wrote: post #41
b0rsuk wrote: post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

> Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too

I have two points to comment on this matter.

Point 1: The only reason I would worry or be concerned about it is if we are using terribly-inefficient programming languages. There are languages (that need not be named) which are either 3x, 4x, 5x, 10x, or even 40x more inefficient than a language that has a performant JIT, or that targets native code. (Even JIT languages like JavaScript as still a lot less efficient because of dynamic typing. Also, in some popular complied-to-native languages, programmers tend to less efficient data structures, which results in lower performance as well.)

Point 2: If the inefficiency arises out of more actual computation being done, that's a different story, and I AM TOTALLY A-OK with it. For instance, if Adobe Creative Suite uses a lot more CPU (and GPU) in general even though it's written in C++, that is likely because it's providing more functionality. I think even a 10% improvement in overall user experience and general functionality is worth increased computation. (For example, using ML to augment everything is wonderful, and we should be happy to expend more processing power for it.)

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#62

Post by wmf »

Interesting tradeoff:

AQFP logic operates adiabatically which limits the clock rate to around 10 GHz in order to remain in the adiabatic regime. The SFQ logic families are non-adiabatic, which means they are capable of running at extremely fast clock rates as high as 770 GHz at the cost of much higher switching energy.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#64

Post by Fronzie »

xwdv wrote: post #59
b0rsuk wrote: post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

As processing power cheapens, programmers will settle for lazy and inefficient code for everyday consumer applications. It will be easier to be a programmer, because you can get away with writing shitty code. So wages will fall and the prestige of being a software developer wanes. The jobs requiring truly elite skill and understanding will dwindle and face fierce competition for their high pay. Before this happens, I…

Energy cost and thermal cooling place restrictions on the computations. C++, with all it flaws, stays in use because it does give control over performance trade-offs.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#65

Post by thebean11 »

carlmr wrote: post #56
xvedejas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

>Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors The trend seems to be that we get only a little bit of extra utility out of a lot of extra hardware performance. When the developer upgrades their PC it's easier for them to not notice performance issues. This creates the situation where every few years you need to buy a new PC to do the things you a…

If the developer doesn't notice the performance issues, maybe they move on to the next thing more quickly and get more done overall?

I'm not sure if that's the case, but it may be we aren't looking for utility in the right places.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#66

Post by agumonkey »

px43 wrote: post #11

It'll be interesting to see if the cryptocurrency mining industry will help subsidize this work, since their primary edge is power/performance. During stable price periods, the power/performance of cryptocurrency miners runs right up to the edge of profitability, so someone who can come in at 20% under that would have a SIGNIFICANT advantage.

If something like that happens it will have far reaching consequences IMO. I'm not pro blockchain.. but the energy cost is important and it goes away significantly people will just pile 10x harder on it.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#67

Post by lkbm »

systemvoltage wrote: post #15
layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. So like 2009 compared to 2021? Based on that, I'd say even more inefficient webshit.

Javascript emulator in Javascript!

Gary Bernhardt's presentation on the "history" of Javascript from 1995 to 2035 is hilarious and seems like something you'd enjoy: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death...

It takes things way beyond simply "emulating Javascript in Javascript", yet is presented so well that you barely notice the transition from current (2014) reality to a comically absurd future.

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#68

Post by pgt »

the8472 wrote: post #18

> We use a logic primitive called the adiabatic quantum-flux-parametron (AQFP), which has a switching energy of 1.4 zJ per JJ when driven by a four-phase 5-GHz sinusoidal ac-clockat 4.2 K. The landauer limit at 4.2K is 4.019×10^-23 J (joules). So this is only a factor of 38x away from the landauer limit.

I'm curious about how the Landauer limit relates to Bremermann's Limit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremermann%27s_limit

Admittedely, I haven't done much reading, but I see it is a linked page from Bremermann's Limit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#69

Post by avmich »

carlmr wrote: post #56
xvedejas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems likely that the more efficient our processors become, the larger share of the world's energy we'll devote to them [0]. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors, but I worry about that too [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law

>Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, if we're getting more than proportionally more utility out of the processors The trend seems to be that we get only a little bit of extra utility out of a lot of extra hardware performance. When the developer upgrades their PC it's easier for them to not notice performance issues. This creates the situation where every few years you need to buy a new PC to do the things you a…

I'm sure a lot of developers upgrade their PCs (they were called workstations at a time) because of material problems - keyboards getting mechanically worse, and laptops can't easily get keyboard fixed, screens getting dead pixels, sockets getting loose, hard-to-find batteries getting less charge, and maybe some electronics degradation.

Another reason is upgrades to software, which maintain general bloat, and which is hard to control; new hardware is easier. That's however is very noticeable.

On top of that, just "better" hardware - say, in a decade one can have significantly better screen, more cores and memory, faster storage; makes easier for large software tasks (video transcoding, big rebuilds of whole toolchains and apps, compute-hungry apps like ML...)

Re: New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial boost in efficiency

#70

Post by adamredwoods »

api wrote: post #24
b0rsuk wrote: post #10

Given the cooling requirements, I suppose it would create completely impassable rift between datacenter computing and other kinds. Imagine how programming and operating systems might look in a world where processing power is 80x cheaper. Considering that "data centers alone consume 2% of world's enegy", I think it's worth it.

I don't see an impassible rift. Probably at first, but supercooling something very small is something that could certainly be productized if there is demand for it. I can see demand in areas like graphics. Imagine real-time raytracing at 8K at 100+ FPS with <10ms latency.

Cyptocurrency demands.
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