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Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

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Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#111
This paper has some red flags and it would be great if someone who has experience with this domain provides more light.

1) The original paper is at https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/20/7594

2) The paper was written based on the findings of the software https://wittyfit.com/ The sample is not random in any sense as it looks like its based on 187 people who are using this software. Correlation != Causation.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#112

I believe workaholists do not neccesarily love their job, but hate something else so much that they would rather find some place to take a bit of rest. I think I'm developing into one...

Now that you are not at the top, I can say it: I have the theory that boys get into programming as a form of escapism – because the external world is frustrating to them. It is certainly my case, external world has all sorts of illogic demands, things that exist but should not be explicited, social rules, or various insults and condescension, some of them because we’re boys (my sister used to tell me boys have 13% fe…

>I have the theory that boys get into programming as a form of escapism

Absolutely my case, except that I'm a big boy approaching 40. I don't work as a programmer, but the job exposes extensive SQL and Python to me (SQL for querying db and Python for automating and sticking together things).

From my experience, programming is so far the only activity that can satisfy my need for creating things and escaping from this world. I mean I can't really cut off all my ties to this world but it's nice to have a small world of my own to enjoy myself, from time to time.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#113

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

>But that doesn't mean it is a healthy way to spend all of your time. Dunno about that. Just a personal anecdote, but this year my boss specifically told me to work less, slashing my salary down by $10,000 a year to emphasize the point. Prior to this, 200 to 240 hours a month was pretty typical and has been for the last 8 years. (I doubt it's out of real concern for my health, my workload hasn't been reduced). What I…

I kind of feel obligated to pipe in as a physician:

There are signs of people not being a high suicide risk, despite depression and overt claims of suicidality. This post is the absolute opposite of that - if you were with me in the clinic right now, I'd consider you an incredibly high risk of an actual suicide attempt. Please, please, please, please reach out to a professional and friends for help. Please.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#114

I believe workaholists do not neccesarily love their job, but hate something else so much that they would rather find some place to take a bit of rest. I think I'm developing into one...

I think it's different for entrepreneur workaholics. Your startup is your baby. It's fun. It's challenging. It's rewarding. And when you're young I think it's great to dedicate to work. You accelerate your learning. You make more money. You meet smart people. I don't know anyone very knowledgeable and skilled for their age that did a work/life balance route. If you are a workaholic but also a learnaholic, then I don'…

That's out of my definition of workoholics though. So I could be biased as I'm using my own definition. IMO if you really enjoy your wor then you are not a workoholic.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#115

I believe workaholists do not neccesarily love their job, but hate something else so much that they would rather find some place to take a bit of rest. I think I'm developing into one...

This hit me really hard, because it's true. This is literally me last 7 years.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#116
post #71

Most of the time I've seen it, it is avoidance of the rest of their life. "Change diapers? Oh, sorry honey, I uhh... gotta do this thing at work. Darn it!" One phenomenon I've always noticed about workaholics is that they THINK they are being more productive, but often times they are just spending more time spinning their wheels. Also the effect it has on their mood/interpersonal skills, and the pressure it puts on t…

> "Man what's up with frank today?" > "Oh he was pulling an all-nighter doing a non-urgent task." > "Did anybody ask him to?" > "No. In fact we asked him to stop." When I am doing this, it is usually because I have the strong feeling that I am in complete control of the problem right now , hours after midnight. Two fears then kick it: will I make it to this point of control a second time in the near future (3-6 month…

I know the feeling. In college (and for a year or so right after), I had the same answer.

A few years later, I've finally realized that any code I write at 2am almost always needs to be fixed--often substantially--soon after. I miss things. I write stupid bugs. I don't see the requirements clearly.

I've found writing things down (sometimes a few words, sometimes a few pages), sleeping on it, and reviewing those notes first thing in the morning--before email, before showering, before anything--to be a much a better strategy.

YMMV, of course.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#117

>"Workaholics are people who usually work seven and more hours more than others per week." >"Workaholism is also known as a behavioural disorder, which means the excessive involvement of the individual in work when an employer doesn’t require or expect it." >"The results show that high job demands at work are strongly associated with work addiction risk but the job control level does not play the same role." In a fir…

To think that you can somehow not be emotionally invested in the thing you spend 20% of your time on is a bit naive. Maybe you're a level 9000 stoic, but for the rest of us, I think it's fine and normal to be emotionally invested in our work, it allows for genuine motivation, team spirit and yes disappointments, but what the hell are you living for?

You rather be a robot for 8 hours every day? I'd rather be sad every once in a while but be myself at work and care about it and the people in there with me.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#118

I would posit that deeper psychological issues are what lead someone to workaholism (as a maladaptive coping mechanism). I believe it is a symptom of a larger issue which is what ultimately leads to the problems with mental and physical health.

That makes more sense to me than the other way around.

As a workaholic, and learnaholic, I did it as a path to financial freedom and to accelerate my learning at at time I knew I had the bandwidth and will. It made me a better entrepreneur and business owner later, which is what I really wanted to do.

But as I've gotten older and have a family now I've been removing obligations for my businesses. And working more normal schedules. Taking random times off to help. Being better at triaging what's really needed from my time.

Yet, I wouldn't have change a thing with my path. It's hard to get to financial freedom and the goal of owning your own businesses with 40 hrs a week.

I don't think working more than the normal is necessarily a bad thing. Some people actually do enjoy their jobs. Or their team. Or they enjoy learning.

I know it's hard for some people to understand why some people are workaholics. I certainly have friends that don't like their jobs that have said I work too much. If you hate your 40 hour job, it's hard to imagine doing any more than that.

In the right environment, the 7+ hours per week extra to be considered a workaholic isn't much different from reading books or practicing your craft in your free time.

Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's different for entrepreneur workaholics. Your startup is your baby. It's fun. It's challenging. It's rewarding. And when you're young I think it's great to dedicate to work. You accelerate your learning. You make more money. You meet smart people. I don't know anyone very knowledgeable and skilled for their age that did a work/life balance route. If you are a workaholic but also a learnaholic, then I don'…

That's out of my definition of workoholics though. So I could be biased as I'm using my own definition. IMO if you really enjoy your wor then you are not a workoholic.

I'd agree with you on that too. The article says 7 more hours a week is a workaholic though and based on my experience with friends and family - they too make no distinction on whether you enjoy it or not. Even if you tell them, they don't have that experience to understand.

Kind of funny though. Nobody tells an athlete they "train too much". Or a researcher that they "research too much".

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