Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#71

Post by ogre_codes » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

I see Apple as an information collection/ delivery/ storage platform. Heck, they've branched out into creating content now with TV+ and to a lesser extent Fitness+ and their Radio offerings.

A car though? How does that mesh/ integrate with my phone/ laptop in such a way where it really makes it a super appealing offering. Apple's satellite devices sell well because they integrate with other Apple devices super well.

Do we care if our car is integrated with our phone? In particular, do we care enough to pay a premium?

EVs are essentially giant batteries, a few motors, and a computer with seats bolted on. Apple is good at computers and maybe batteries. I just don't see how Apple is going to bring together a machine which is appealing enough to really take off.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#72

Post by inglor_cz » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

moocow01 wrote: post #52

inglor_cz wrote: post #3

In the context of recent events... If there is a planned demonstration of some uncouth people in a certain place, will your Apple Car simply refuse to drive you there? Or will it stop serving you once your GPS coordinates from your iPhone show that you were actually there? These would be absurd, almost troll-level questions a year ago, but I feel that now they must be pondered. Edit: from 4 to -2 points within two mi…

"after some time, loses enough social credit that the government decides to deprive him of the ability to use his car" I know its easy to mentally walk down the dystopian road on this, but hasn't this always been the case? The only thing new is these policies are now getting codified using technology as society embraces it. Even from an apolitical stance, we as a modern society have always had mechanisms to take away…

The mechanisms were there, but ease of deployment mattered.

To compare things: you could publish a book in 1970 and you can publish a book now, but the process back then, with no text processors and digital printers, was much more complicated. To use an expression of von Clausewitz: "there was more friction".

A digital system that limits driving ability of individuals is much more scalable and also fine-tunable than its old alternative. For example, the government has many more intermediate options. It can choose to limit your driving ability to 10 miles a day only, then proceed to 5 miles a day only (unless you clean up your act, of course), or ban you just for 24 hours or a week.

These smaller, graded punishments would be impractical if they had to be enforced by human officers, but are perfectly feasible with remote control.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#73

Post by dahfizz » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #10

inglor_cz wrote: post #3

In the context of recent events... If there is a planned demonstration of some uncouth people in a certain place, will your Apple Car simply refuse to drive you there? Or will it stop serving you once your GPS coordinates from your iPhone show that you were actually there? These would be absurd, almost troll-level questions a year ago, but I feel that now they must be pondered. Edit: from 4 to -2 points within two mi…

Pick between the news headlines: * Apple car found to have transported terrorists to sabotage Capitol building. Should those with morals be boycotting Apple? * Apple refuses service to terrorists. Apple tries to hold the country together and keep peace. If you were Apple, and had to pick between those headlines, which would you pick? When your company is built on your brand, it is suicide to associate yourself with s…

Or all the big tech companies could ban every journalist outlet that commits sedition by publishing negative headlines.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#74

Post by alboy » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:45 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #50

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Taliban and other less savory groups drive Toyotas yet the demographics who cut ties the nanosecond they catch a whiff of wrong-think still love the brand. In fact, they go so far as to spin it as an endorsement. Why wouldn't apple get the same treatment? Its other products are known as high quality status symbols the world over. You don't see people up in arms because a public execution in some developing nation…

It might have something to do with the fact Toyata has literally no ability to enforce driver usage.

So, how long before they have to address the current pandemonium of their vehicles roaming free on a generous 24-hour notice, given that Toyota's Mobility Services Platform is hosted on AWS?

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#75

Post by ben_w » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

rusticpenn wrote: post #43

ben_w wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying cars (well, human scale drones with autopilots) are definitely something I can believe Apple would do. I don't think they have done it or started projects to look at it yet or we'd have heard rumors already, but I definitely think they'd be interested.

like this? https://lilium.com/

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#76

Post by elicash » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #3

In the context of recent events... If there is a planned demonstration of some uncouth people in a certain place, will your Apple Car simply refuse to drive you there? Or will it stop serving you once your GPS coordinates from your iPhone show that you were actually there? These would be absurd, almost troll-level questions a year ago, but I feel that now they must be pondered. Edit: from 4 to -2 points within two mi…

I wouldn't call a mob that attempted to overthrow a democratic election by taking over our nation's capitol building -- a group that included, in part, terrorists with flex cuffs and guns and bombs and what was essentially napalm -- "uncouth." These are folks who we now know had advanced planning and in some cases wrote about their intent to kill specific individuals. And at least one officer died.

If they had advanced just a few minutes earlier, according to the timelines that have been put out, they would have gotten to members of Congress. A Republican member of Congress said that one of his fellow freshmen members voted against accepting election results because he was afraid people would kill his family. A Democratic member of Congress said that some GOP members have broken down in tears and are afraid for their lives if they vote for this impeachment.

If you want to argue about slippery slope, fine. But to characterize this attack on our nation as simply people being "uncouth" is absurd.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#77

Post by esrauch » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #16

esrauch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a 3 wheel car is just pragmatically worse than a 4 wheel one. It would also be "uncool" which would make it really far off-brand for Apple. If it's intended to take you on roughly the same trips that a normal car is (to the grocery store/work/school/whatever generally 30+ minutes away) it basically will necessarily just be something that looks a lot like a regular car.

I don't think Apple would do this, but I also don't think the "uncool" claim is necessarily true: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a13990/polaris-slingsh...

Fair enough, I was just imagining more like a Tuktuk with a single front wheel.

But yeah, that kind of design seems more like what an Alienware electric car might be rather than an Apple one.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#78

Post by moocow01 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #72

moocow01 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"after some time, loses enough social credit that the government decides to deprive him of the ability to use his car" I know its easy to mentally walk down the dystopian road on this, but hasn't this always been the case? The only thing new is these policies are now getting codified using technology as society embraces it. Even from an apolitical stance, we as a modern society have always had mechanisms to take away…

The mechanisms were there, but ease of deployment mattered. To compare things: you could publish a book in 1970 and you can publish a book now, but the process back then, with no text processors and digital printers, was much more complicated. To use an expression of von Clausewitz: "there was more friction". A digital system that limits driving ability of individuals is much more scalable and also fine-tunable than…

I actually share you're hesitancies but to play devil's advocate could these more fine-grained mediations lead to better policies in scenario's where those in control work for the greater good? Things that come to mind are reasonable speed restrictions on a driver caught going 50mph over the limit rather than an outright revoke of license or auto-detection of dangerous driving behaviors that could be punished with micro-fines. Maybe some would see those as a dystopia but it seems like you could utilize these to improve driving behavior as a society and decrease the need for overly harsh punishment.

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#79

Post by secstate » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

abalone wrote: post #46

inglor_cz wrote: post #3

In the context of recent events... If there is a planned demonstration of some uncouth people in a certain place, will your Apple Car simply refuse to drive you there? Or will it stop serving you once your GPS coordinates from your iPhone show that you were actually there? These would be absurd, almost troll-level questions a year ago, but I feel that now they must be pondered. Edit: from 4 to -2 points within two mi…

Apple is one of the most privacy-forward large tech companies and regularly tries to engineer systems in a way that denies them and central governments control over your data. For example they designed iCloud Keychain to work securely on adversarial clouds controlled by hostile governments. They do very tightly control the features available on their products, so your question really hinges on how they will perceive…

Not quite. Apple has done a very aggressive marketing campaign to encourage us to perceive them as privacy-forward.

They've also done an admirable job marketing the specifics of what they do. What's left is all the places where they don't respect the privacy of their users because there's limited marketing value. They don't claim E2E on many services because they don't have it, and adding it wouldn't help marketing. My guess is some Tier 1 support person can drop in and take a look at the GPS pings from your phone.

But don't take my word for it. The Atlantic is far more reputable: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/apple...

Re: Apple Car expected to shake up auto industry in Asia and world

#80

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #65

briefcomment wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the ability to remotely brick a car becomes a possibility, people will expect it. For now, Toyota can't do a thing to their cars when someone else is using it, so no one holds them to that standard.

Nobody expects Apple to brick the iPhone of $BAD_PERSON

True. I wonder if something like this happens in China though.