Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 424 posts

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#91

Post by timr »

[deleted] wrote: post #74

[deleted]

I honestly don't understand how a group of people who so often invoke the phrase "the plural of anecdote is not data" can be voting this comment up. It's prattle -- pure American Exceptionalism and John Wayne Work Ethic -- designed to make people feel guilty for not working like dogs.

So, your grandparents worked very hard. Well, so did mine -- on the other side of the management/labor divide. My grandfather did long days at an auto plant for most of his life. He lost his hearing from the factory noise, slipped discs in his back from lifting, and started his days at 4AM for the entire time I knew him. Thankfully for his family, his union felt that vacation time was not an option.

So by all means, work as hard as you like. Avoid vacations if you want to, dedicate your life to grabbing the brass ring by whatever means you feel appropriate. But that's your choice. When people no longer have the luxury to choose not to live like that, we've gone far off the rails.

And not for nothing: I'll wager that your grandparents didn't work hard with the intention that their grandchildren would have to spend their lives working for a company that never gave them time off.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#92

Post by lurker20 »

jinushaun wrote: post #6
wccrawford wrote: post #4

When I complained to an employer that it was too hard to request my vacation time (it's in my contract, they made it very hard to pick dates by always having an emergency deadline, etc) they replied "It's like that everywhere", as if it was a legit answer. Many employers also lump in sick time with vacation time, as if that's a replacement since you didn't come into work. That would probably be okay, if you had an op…

What really grinds my gears is when federal holidays count towards my "vacation time". Those alone eat up seven days! I request four weeks of vacation in my contract, but am afraid to use them. That's America.

If you are on a contract (which from context I am guessing is full-time per week, short-term), you can take vacation before or after the term, right?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#93

Post by lurker20 »

wccrawford wrote: post #19
jinushaun wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really grinds my gears is when federal holidays count towards my "vacation time". Those alone eat up seven days! I request four weeks of vacation in my contract, but am afraid to use them. That's America.

Oh wow, that's the first I've ever heard of that. That would not be acceptable for me. I think I'll be asking for more vacation time in future contracts, too. I managed to secure extra in the first year of my current contract because I had a need (planned trip) but in the future, I'm just going to require more. Of course, benefits and pay are interchangeable, so I might just request the ability to take unpaid vacatio…

Sort of. The difference is that some benefits are linked to length-of-service or continuity-of-service, so an unpaid vacation in the USA can scuttle your health insurance, equity vest, 401(k) match, etc.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#94

Post by lurker20 »

ry0ohki wrote: post #5

Usually the only time Americans can take long vacations is between jobs. I wonder how many actually change jobs just for this reason. I asked for 4 consecutive weeks off to travel Europe once at a previous employer (I had worked there 5 years with no more then a week and a half off) and they denied the request. So I found another job and made sure I had a 4 week break between the two.

Unfortunately, some of use take negative vacations between jobs, cashing out unused vacation on Friday, and starting a new job on Monday. It's only a month or two later that we realize our mistake.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#96

Post by wyclif »

joezydeco wrote: post #10

I'm wondering how much of it is because people neglect to negotiate their vacation time when changing jobs. Most American workplaces start you out with 2 weeks and then usually add a week or so after so many years of seniority. When you change jobs, how many of you ask for that same amount of vacation time at the new company? Or do you just accept that you're new and don't want to push things by asking for more at th…

Or do you just accept that you're new and don't want to push things by asking for more at the onset?

You raise an important point. There can be a bit of that. For example, negotiating additional vacation time when you start a new job can hurt you a year later when you take that vacation and things aren't going well for the company. It can be viewed negatively by management and it might bleed into other considerations, like raises or promotions. Screwed up, I know, but it happens.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#97

Post by Silhouette »

[deleted] wrote: post #74

[deleted]

> Three day weekends with an occasional week or two off between gigs always seemed like enough.

For a long time, as an employee, I used to do that. I usually took a couple of weeks off over Christmas and New Year, but rarely took more than a day or two consecutively at other times of year.

I had no idea what I was missing.

Since going freelance and starting my own businesses, I've taken week-plus holidays several times, sometimes going abroad (which I'd done very rarely for much of my adult life) and sometimes just getting away from the job to spend time with friends or simply retreating away from life in the fast lane for a while.

I found it remarkably easy to leave e-mail and phone contact behind, completely, for a week or more. Although I enjoy keeping up with news and participating in discussions on sites like HN, I'm very aware now of what a time sink this sort of social news site can be and how much more interesting stuff I could do without really missing out on anything. Most important of all, I have enjoyed new places and shared new experiences with my loved ones that I would never have done as an employee who used up most of his vacation days on long weekends.

If you're a workaholic and what drives you is business, so that it's almost a fun hobby the way managing investments is for some people, then go ahead and knock yourself out. But I hope anyone who does that chooses to do so in the knowledge of what the alternatives are, and not just because they have so little experience of life that they don't even understand how much more they could do.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#98

Post by [deleted] »

zdw wrote: post #3

One result of this is that businesses chuck human redundancy out the window. Often there's only one person who can do a business critical task, and as they can't really be gone from work for that long, the business gets by. From an business uptime perspective, forced "downtime" of employees through vacation is actually a good way to force the creation of backup systems for business process.

[deleted]

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#99

Post by bretthoerner »

PonyGumbo wrote: post #47
jinushaun wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What really grinds my gears is when federal holidays count towards my "vacation time". Those alone eat up seven days! I request four weeks of vacation in my contract, but am afraid to use them. That's America.

I started a new job last year with 10 days of vacation. It wasn't until December that I learned that five of those days were mandatory for the week between Christmas and New Year's. If you had no vacation days left, it was unpaid time off.

Since this is HN, there's a pretty good chance you're an Engineer of some kind. Where are you (or what do you do?) that companies can get away with this?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#100

Post by Vivtek »

bartonfink wrote: post #76
Vivtek wrote: post #40

America doesn't do vacation because of a mistaken understanding of the meaning of the word "productivity". As long as you have management consultants who specialize in the single metric of productivity (i.e. number of dollars of profit vs. number of dollars spent on people making the profit), you will have miserable people.

American corporate culture seems to live by the motto "Don't think - measure!"

Well, in general, I'm in favor of measuring - "thinking" is often a buzzword that means jumping on whichever fad bandwagon you just saw in the airline magazine. It's picking what to measure where some thought is required.
Post reply on HN