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Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

anandtech.com

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Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#71

Post by GeekyBear »

pja wrote: post #53
traveler01 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gaming laptop has a i7-9750H with the same rating. Considering how low the bar as placed by the M1, you're right.

The M1 peaks at about 27W at max compute load. Apple TDPs are like Intel TDPs - they’re a benchmarking number pulled out of the air for marketing reasons that have at best a tenuous relationship with reality. (This is not to undermine the fact that the M1 is a /great/ chip, but the 10W figure is a marketing number.)

There were a few caveats attached to those numbers.

>It’s especially important to keep in mind that the figure of what we usually recall as TDP in processors is actually only a subset of the figures presented here, as beyond just the SoC we’re also measuring DRAM and voltage regulation overhead, something which is not included in TDP figures nor your typical package power readout on a laptop.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste...

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#72

Post by anovikov »

breakfastduck wrote: post #18
melling wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition is good. Everyone should want Intel to perform at a high level.

Yeah I've never understood the attitude of wanting someone like Intel to fail. If they start pushing back with strong performing CPUs it will only increase competition and help push Apple and AMD even further. Not sure why people think an AMD monopoly would be any better than the intel we've seen over the past 5 years. If they lose their main competitor they'd take their foot off the gas on performance / process impr…

For me it's easier: what was the last time they built a CPU that was worth looking to buy a device that had it? Not in the last 15 years (ok first Core Duo was that thing, but it was so many years ago). I really gave up hoping to see them pleasantly surprise ever again.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#73

Post by reader_mode »

jeffbee wrote: post #70
reader_mode wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to last gen AMD cores ?

11th Gen Core are 10-20% faster than Zen 2 “Renoir” on the workloads I’ve tried.

That's the single core improvement you have between Zen 2 and Zen 3, but Zen 3 also has sightly better power usage than Zen 2 and Zen 2 was already superior (allegedly - I haven't actually used a Zen 2 mobile device since nothing really premium was built with it) - Zen 3 mobile isn't out yet but I suspect it's going to be a much better experience for mobile just like Zen 2 was compared to 10th gen intel.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#74

Post by kllrnohj »

GeekyBear wrote: post #71
pja wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 peaks at about 27W at max compute load. Apple TDPs are like Intel TDPs - they’re a benchmarking number pulled out of the air for marketing reasons that have at best a tenuous relationship with reality. (This is not to undermine the fact that the M1 is a /great/ chip, but the 10W figure is a marketing number.)

There were a few caveats attached to those numbers. >It’s especially important to keep in mind that the figure of what we usually recall as TDP in processors is actually only a subset of the figures presented here, as beyond just the SoC we’re also measuring DRAM and voltage regulation overhead, something which is not included in TDP figures nor your typical package power readout on a laptop. https://www.anandtech.co…

The 27W is the number Anandtech estimates after accounting for those. Total power draw was 31W.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#75

Post by kllrnohj »

reader_mode wrote: post #22
Jonnax wrote: post #16

From this article: https://wccftech.com/intel-launches-tiger-lake-h-tgl-h-mobil... Intel say they have the fastest single threaded performance of any laptop processor. They show a graph of a benchmark of something called SPECRATE * 2017_int_base compiled with the Intel compiler. Does the Intel compiler still hamstring AMD? Also is this benchmark useful in real world usage?

Does it really matter in a 45W power range ? I have a 2018 15 MBP with an i9-8950HK that has the same power range - this thing is unusable at full load for anything but burst - and the way it taxes the thermals makes it a terrible laptop (people in the office start turning their heads). I'm not convinced any portable laptop can handle that TDP efficiently - so maybe this is interesting for gaming laptops - but to me…

The 15 MBP has worst-in-class thermal design. MacBooks have always had worst-in-class thermal designs, as Apple prioritized looks over function on that. Hence why there's no visible vents.

What a 15 MBP can and can't cool is therefore not very interesting. Thermally it's terrible. 45W is still going to be a challenge for other designs, but it can (and has) been done without being deafeningly loud like a MBP or monstrously thick. Simply having intake & exhaust vents beyond just the keyboard & hinge alone massively improves things here. But yes you will hear it under sustained load. But you're also doing whatever you're doing a lot faster as a result - it's a tradeoff here. You could always disable half the cores if you don't like the 45W, Intel will sell you quad cores all day long quite happily.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#76

Post by fomine3 »

bserge wrote: post #50
reader_mode wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really matter in a 45W power range ? I have a 2018 15 MBP with an i9-8950HK that has the same power range - this thing is unusable at full load for anything but burst - and the way it taxes the thermals makes it a terrible laptop (people in the office start turning their heads). I'm not convinced any portable laptop can handle that TDP efficiently - so maybe this is interesting for gaming laptops - but to me…

It's the heatsink. And Apple isn't the only offender. All major manufacturers use terrible cooling systems, even on thick workstation class laptops. Their testing is seriously flawed, they design the heatsink for "normal workload" which means jack shit. Everyone's got different uses for their machines, so just test the heatsink at maximum load/TDP for several hours at least, make sure it doesn't overheat. Is that too…

VAIO argue that they design great cooling system (with TruePerformance brand) so their laptop with lower TDP CPU performs better than other manufacturer's higher TDP laptop with crap cooling. It looks interesting because it's also portable, but it's expensive due to VAIO's selling scale.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#77

Post by bserge »

fomine3 wrote: post #76
bserge wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the heatsink. And Apple isn't the only offender. All major manufacturers use terrible cooling systems, even on thick workstation class laptops. Their testing is seriously flawed, they design the heatsink for "normal workload" which means jack shit. Everyone's got different uses for their machines, so just test the heatsink at maximum load/TDP for several hours at least, make sure it doesn't overheat. Is that too…

VAIO argue that they design great cooling system (with TruePerformance brand) so their laptop with lower TDP CPU performs better than other manufacturer's higher TDP laptop with crap cooling. It looks interesting because it's also portable, but it's expensive due to VAIO's selling scale.

That looks like Dell's Dynamic Tuning, which also dynamically adjusts performance. Except Dell still sells models with higher end processors that their cooling simply can't handle.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Dynamic-Power-Policy-A-lo...

The result is hilarious: Dell's own machines with a lower end processor have equal or higher performance compared to the same models with higher end CPUs.

This is actually part Intel's fault, as with TurboBoost their processors with the same core count have nearly the same performance, so it makes little sense to pay $100-200 more for a "higher end" CPU unless it has more cores.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#78

Post by breakfastduck »

dijit wrote: post #45
breakfastduck wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I've never understood the attitude of wanting someone like Intel to fail. If they start pushing back with strong performing CPUs it will only increase competition and help push Apple and AMD even further. Not sure why people think an AMD monopoly would be any better than the intel we've seen over the past 5 years. If they lose their main competitor they'd take their foot off the gas on performance / process impr…

> Yeah I've never understood the attitude of wanting someone like Intel to fail. I can give a pretty clear reason: they deserve to. They committed two cardinal sins and one that pisses me off personally: 1) Using their monopoly position to crush competition, over and over and over. Using shady business practices and their enormous wealth to kludge any person who could even attempt to compete. Examples include: Cyrix,…

I absolutely agree with that.

They do deserve to fail, but I don't want them to. I want them to throw resource at developing cutting edge CPU tech.

Re: Intel’s 8-Core Mobile Tiger Lake-H, at 45 W, to Ship in Q1

#79

Post by traveler01 »

pja wrote: post #53
traveler01 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gaming laptop has a i7-9750H with the same rating. Considering how low the bar as placed by the M1, you're right.

The M1 peaks at about 27W at max compute load. Apple TDPs are like Intel TDPs - they’re a benchmarking number pulled out of the air for marketing reasons that have at best a tenuous relationship with reality. (This is not to undermine the fact that the M1 is a /great/ chip, but the 10W figure is a marketing number.)

Yeah but in real world results these SocS are shining.
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