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I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

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Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#31

Post by formalsystems »

roenxi wrote: post #19

Gallows are a time-honoured protest prop (eg, [0]), one being present isn't really the manifestation of gross negligence that this post wants to make it out to be [1]. This is not a very interesting post. Yeah you could predict that there was going to be a protest from Parler. There would have been people saying "hey, there is a rally on the 6th, lets go there and show our support". [0] https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2…

I personally spent many hours on Parler reading the discourse. The Turner Diaries were openly discussed and gave rise to various gallow-related hashtags which proliferated on it.

I don't presume to predict anything as was correctly pointed out. I could not and did not imagine the events that transpired.

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#32

Post by yeuxardents »

Barrin92 wrote: post #9
yeuxardents wrote: post #4

I fully believe the flip side of this is. Had social networks not, over the last 10 years, been consistently banning anyone and everyone they could for everything ranging from simply slightly disagreeable speech all the way to flat out illegal speech, you would not have needed a massive analysis of data from one-off sites. The crowd sourcing and eyes on the information of regular people could have predicted it. By cr…

the crowd sourcing and eyes of regular people could have predicted it anyhow, and many people did in fact do just that simply by reading Parler or 4chan and taking threats seriously. See for example Arieh Kovler, 21 December 2020: "On January 6, armed Trumpist militias will be rallying in DC, at Trump's orders. It's highly likely that they'll try to storm the Capitol after it certifies Joe Biden's win. I don't think…

gas-lightning, now thats something that might be cool

The Internet is not real life, just because someone wrote something somewhere means nothing. It could just as well be russian bloggers writing the same inflaming crap . We need to be able to know whats what.

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#33

Post by mullingitover »

yeuxardents wrote: post #27
numlock86 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crowd sourcing and eyes on the information of regular people could have predicted it. > By creating even more and more internet bubbles, the 'regular people' do not even see what the 'irregular people' are up to anymore. They cannot talk them down from their ledge, there is no intercommunication now. What kept 'regular people' from hopping on 8ch and stopping Christchurch by talking him down? Fun fact: The whol…

>What kept 'regular people' from hopping on 8ch and stopping Christchurch by talking him down? Fun fact: The whole thing was well known in advance and even observed online by law enforcement. What kept 'regular people' from hopping onto a widely derided and supposedly extremist platform, where threats of exposure of ones personal life simply for being there stopped them from noticing extremism? Are you sure that is a…

> My point still is, if you force these people into places like that, where their plans are easily observable, and 99% of people wont go there then it will fester in silence.

Good.

Better they fester in silence in a place where they can be observed and reported to authorities when they cross the line. Without a popular, legitimate, high traffic platform that allows them to influence a mass audience the cancer doesn't metastasize.

I can't banter my own mother into giving up whatever conspiracy theory crosses her path. There are so many people with equally poor fact-checking and critical thinking skills that they form their own festering bubbles on popular platforms. The bigger the bubbles, the more extreme they get, and now the end result is a confederacy of deluded, violent extremists sacking the capitol. We're lucky it wasn't worse, but this might be a dress rehearsal for far more violence if we don't get a better grip.

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#34

Post by yeuxardents »

mullingitover wrote: post #33
yeuxardents wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What kept 'regular people' from hopping on 8ch and stopping Christchurch by talking him down? Fun fact: The whole thing was well known in advance and even observed online by law enforcement. What kept 'regular people' from hopping onto a widely derided and supposedly extremist platform, where threats of exposure of ones personal life simply for being there stopped them from noticing extremism? Are you sure that is a…

> My point still is, if you force these people into places like that, where their plans are easily observable, and 99% of people wont go there then it will fester in silence. Good. Better they fester in silence in a place where they can be observed and reported to authorities when they cross the line. Without a popular, legitimate, high traffic platform that allows them to influence a mass audience the cancer doesn't…

Please read a history book, preferably one written in the last century.

Human societies are cyclical, repeatable, and to some degree, predictable.

At least 75,000,000 people think one way. Deny them the right to speak openly and what might you have?

I gather, as a late night estimate, 75,000,000 people talking to about another 55,000,000 people why they are right.

And you want to force them all into darkness, unable to engage in the political discussion.

Madness. Absolute Madness.

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#36

Post by freebuju »

ballenf wrote: post #22
me_again wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious: anyone feel they have ever successfully "talked someone down from a ledge" in an online forum in this way? Presumably it must happen but it seems vanishingly rare.

You see it here on HN all the time. An inflammatory post gets scolded/graciously questioned and the person retracts/apologizes/softens. Not every time, but a lot. But HN might be unique in that regard? Or maybe there's just a scale beyond which it doesn't work?

There's a stark difference between the audience here at HN and say 8ch or even the taken down Parler. Most users here you can reason with, can't say much for extremists. Also the crowd over there won't give you the mic unless you feed them what they want to hear. They troop to these hidden places for a specific reason(s).

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#37

Post by redis_mlc »

Barrin92 wrote: post #9
yeuxardents wrote: post #4

I fully believe the flip side of this is. Had social networks not, over the last 10 years, been consistently banning anyone and everyone they could for everything ranging from simply slightly disagreeable speech all the way to flat out illegal speech, you would not have needed a massive analysis of data from one-off sites. The crowd sourcing and eyes on the information of regular people could have predicted it. By cr…

the crowd sourcing and eyes of regular people could have predicted it anyhow, and many people did in fact do just that simply by reading Parler or 4chan and taking threats seriously. See for example Arieh Kovler, 21 December 2020: "On January 6, armed Trumpist militias will be rallying in DC, at Trump's orders. It's highly likely that they'll try to storm the Capitol after it certifies Joe Biden's win. I don't think…

It appears that antifa led the storming of the Capitol building, not Trumpists. So what is your narrative now?

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#38

Post by roenxi »

formalsystems wrote: post #31
roenxi wrote: post #19

Gallows are a time-honoured protest prop (eg, [0]), one being present isn't really the manifestation of gross negligence that this post wants to make it out to be [1]. This is not a very interesting post. Yeah you could predict that there was going to be a protest from Parler. There would have been people saying "hey, there is a rally on the 6th, lets go there and show our support". [0] https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2…

I personally spent many hours on Parler reading the discourse. The Turner Diaries were openly discussed and gave rise to various gallow-related hashtags which proliferated on it. I don't presume to predict anything as was correctly pointed out. I could not and did not imagine the events that transpired.

> The Turner Diaries were openly discussed and gave rise to various gallow-related hashtags which proliferated on it.

This looks to me like a classic correlation-causation mistake.

* Discussion a book with mass hangings can lead people to talk about gallows.

* Going to a political protest can traditionally involve bringing a gallows.

They are not linked, even though both things involve a gallows. Political protest commonly involves nooses (here is a really good one [0]). That is totally normal symbolism after a US president is voted in.

[0] https://www.cbs17.com/news/kentucky-man-hangs-effigy-of-dona...

Re: I ran a crawler to collect posts and comments on Parler

#39

Post by the8472 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #30
roenxi wrote: post #19

Gallows are a time-honoured protest prop (eg, [0]), one being present isn't really the manifestation of gross negligence that this post wants to make it out to be [1]. This is not a very interesting post. Yeah you could predict that there was going to be a protest from Parler. There would have been people saying "hey, there is a rally on the 6th, lets go there and show our support". [0] https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2…

It's a disgusting practice. I don't care how time-honoured it is. Real people are involved here. Real violence. Real death. Showing someone a guillotine or a gallows or making threats to use deadly violence as part of a political protest is just plain wrong.

I don't disagree that it's a threat. But that threat is always there anyway. We prefer the democratic process because it's less destructive than regular, bloody power transitions. A guillotine can be seen as a reminder for why we have democracy. So in a way it's a pro-democratic symbol as the threat is there to enforce democratic norms.

The threat only becomes misguided if you're wrongly under the impression that democratic norms have been violated and thus you're threatening legitimately elected officials.

Think of it as a prisoner's dilemma. Perfectly rational or virtuous prisoners might cooperate out of their own volition. But even very selfish prisoners might be convinced to cooperate if they repeatedly get reminded of the grisly outcomes that happen to defectors. We might prefer the former (virtuous actors) but if we can't rely on everyone being like that then encouraging good behavior through threats is the next best option which is still far more preferable than the worst possible equilibrium.

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