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EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

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121–130 of 286 posts

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You discuss governance, access to voters, wielding of power and free speech but not the meat of my comment: a customer not playing by the rules they agreed to, and the implication that they should be allowed to break the rules they agreed to simply because they're important. An organisation must now allow people to flaunt their rules, helpless to remove them despite the abuse that they perpetrate?

I don't think you can square that circle. Let's say it's 2024, and the dominant social media platform is called Witted[1]. They have their terms of service, but the terms of service have some ambiguity. In fact, Witted deliberately left some ambiguity, for two reasons. First, you can't absolutely codify human interactions - human communication is too complex. Second, Witted wanted the ambiguity, because it gave Witte…

Thank you for clarifying the nuances at play. You've given me food for thought.

I think it's easy to say the rules are vague, a statement I agree with. In my understanding of how the big social media players have finally applied their rules against Trump it was for inciting violence and spreading disinformation. I'd suggest the latter is pretty clear-cut, with the former being somewhat more challenging. Trump's tactic of inciting violence while calling for peace is the pinnacle of examples. Even in this case, however, the fact he calls for peace doesn't nullify his call to arms.

In your example however, Harris surely has other wide-ranging channels to spread her message. She would also likely be able to bring a legal case that her alleged breaking of the terms was not the case - but I'm sure this would be decided on much to far down the path to be relevant. The damage would already be done.

Witter would likely already be known to have an axe to grind against Harris or her politics - would she even deign to engage on the platform at all?

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs and/or cherrypicking. It's not my intention to discuss this in bad faith. Just the thought of an organisation not being allowed to apply its rules really does shock me.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#123
I think the EU understands the precedent this sets.

The tech giants have established that if they disagree with something (using their preferred value system), they feel they have the right to take action.

Let’s say the an EU minister proposes something that’s antithetical to US principles but is lawful in the EU, now tech giants feel emboldened with the right to take action _unilaterally_ without the right to an appeal.

I believe this is what the EU fears and wants to avoid.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#124
post #19

I'm impressed that the EU is taking action in this case and I hope they also look into the shutdown of Parler under antitrust legislation. Parler was the number one downloaded social media app in the app store after all. According to BBC the most popular accounts on Parler were people like Sean Hannity and Ted Cruz, who each had followers in the millions. Of course Parler had a problem with some - maybe even many - v…

You’ve got that wrong. Europe want to push for takedowns to be enshrined in legislation. It’s not the free speech panacea push you’re looking for.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#125

I fully agree that these decisions have to be done by democratic institutions. They also have to be very liberal and very careful and erring on the side of not taking things down. My biggest problem however is the EU commission acting like they are a democratic institution. The president of the commission didn't even run in the election. We were promised that the candidate of the winning party would become president…

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#126
It's hard to overlook that the political class is suddenly up in arms about this primarily because they suddenly perceive themselves as being under threat from it. Ordinary individuals and businesses have had to deal with the hegemony of the platforms for a long time and it hasn't really mattered until now.

I fear the outcome of this is going to be that it translates into massive regulatory overreach and splitting up of companies instead of what would be healthy - encourage competition through enforcing open standards and mandating interoperability and sharing of personal data. Those things would go a lot further to ensuring actual free speech as well as creating a healthier internet at the same time.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#127

I know this is a heated topic but I really don’t understand what the other options are. Having businesses dictate who they want to serve seems like censorship but having the government dictate it seems way worse. I’m not sure how to decouple or balance the freedom of will as a business, freedom of will as a person and the societal mandate of the majority (which is how democracy works? It’s always about the majority v…

Surely there is a middle ground: let businesses operate how they please so long as they follow the law, and have the law require them to act in a way which is considered reasonable. If you’re a business trying to sell something then you are required to be somewhat honest in how you represent the thing, especially if you are selling some kind of food. If you’re a bank then you are required to be fair to a certain extent in how you choose the customers you serve and what services you offer them.

I don’t see why a business that presents itself as a quasi-public space that is generally open to all at no cost should not have some duty to be faithful to the way it represents itself and to treat its users fairly.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#128
post #118

Twitter is a private company enforcing their terms of service. They are not required to give you a platform to express your speech.

> Twitter is a private company enforcing their terms of service.

Being a private company has never meant you're allowed to rule as you wish on your turf. I believe the history of company towns in the US provides plenty of reasons for that.

While platforms can't really be compared to company towns, social networks now constitute an essential part of where public discourse happens, and I don't believe it would be too hard for Europe to make a case that public interest requires regulation and oversight.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#129

I know this is a heated topic but I really don’t understand what the other options are. Having businesses dictate who they want to serve seems like censorship but having the government dictate it seems way worse. I’m not sure how to decouple or balance the freedom of will as a business, freedom of will as a person and the societal mandate of the majority (which is how democracy works? It’s always about the majority v…

Surely there is a middle ground: let businesses operate how they please so long as they follow the law, and have the law require them to act in a way which is considered reasonable. If you’re a business trying to sell something then you are required to be somewhat honest in how you represent the thing, especially if you are selling some kind of food. If you’re a bank then you are required to be fair to a certain exte…

> Surely there is a middle ground: let businesses operate how they please so long as they follow the law, and have the law require them to act in a way which is considered reasonable.

A lot of people would argue that is the situation we have now.

The government wasn't against twitter because they were looking like they were going to remove right wing stuff, they were angry because they were being fact checked.

Re: EU Commission: ‘No longer acceptable’ for platforms to take key decisions alone

#130

Assuming that a company's terms of service are deemed fair and legal, why would it be "no longer acceptable" to apply them? I couldn't care less how high profile someone is, what public office they hold; if they break the agreement they made with a service provider, they should be subject to the consequences they agreed to. What I would like to see is a company being obliged to enforce its terms of service promptly,…

Because we have articles 10 and 11 of the Charter of fundamental rights of the European Union, and the EU does protect these rights.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12...

--- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Article 10

Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right includes freedom to change religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2. The right to conscientious objection is recognised, in accordance with the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

Article 11

Freedom of expression and information

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

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