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Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#81

Post by Ma8ee »

tpmx wrote: post #3

In the mountains, at about 3k feet or 1k meters elevation. Yes, the headline is quite misleading. I expect more from the BBC . From the article: > The temperature plunged to -25C (-13F) in Molina de Aragón and Teruel, in mountains east of Madrid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molina_de_Arag%C3%B3n > Elevation 1,065 m (3,494 ft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teruel > Elevation 915 m (3,002 ft)

The elevation of Madrid is 667 meters according to Wikipedia. So we are not talking about the temperature of an isolated mountain top, even if they report the most extreme temperature.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#82

Post by throwaway5752 »

arcturus17 wrote: post #73

Madrid continues to be in utter disarray after this weekend's snowstorm, with most streets still covered in ice, many hardly penetrable even by foot. Supplies in some downtown supermarkets are low, with fresh produce completely out-of-stock. The fact that snowplows are nowhere to be seen and streets continue to be in such a poor state suggests to me that not only we are completely ill-equipped for this situation (whi…

This is completely abnormal weather for Madrid. It would be objectively stupid for them to have prepared well for arctic weather, given the average temperature in January is not even below 0 C and they get on average almost no snowfall in an average year.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#83

Post by nextos »

PeterisP wrote: post #38
cs702 wrote: post #11

For those accustomed to US/Imperial units, -25×9÷5+32=-13°F. Temperatures in Madrid dropped to -16°C (3°F). As others here have mentioned, these temperatures are unusually low for January in this region of Spain. They are the kinds of temperatures one would have seen in January during the "Little Ice Age" between the 15th and 19th centuries.[a][b][c] Let's hope this unusual drop in temperature is just a "one-off" rar…

It absolutely is an example of things to come - scenarios like this are caused by the weakened polar vortex that generally separates European weather from Arctic weather; the polar vortex has become weaker over the last years because of recent climate change / regional warming, and it is strongly expected to become even weaker in the coming decade(s), making weather like this more frequent.

It looks unusual, and I agree with you that it might be an example of the things to come. But I'd love to see an analysis of snowstorms in central Spain using extreme value theory. It might not be that infrequent. In EVT terms, the return level might not be more than a few decades.

Central Spain is quite cold. For example, when the International Brigades came to fight in the Civil War they were expecting a mild Winter, but they were shocked by pretty extreme temperatures. Luckily, everyone got prepared as next few years were even worse. In 1937, Teruel Battle was consistently fought below -20 C.

Aside from 1937, 1956 and 1971 saw pretty intense snowstorms. The 1971 one was much worse than the current storm according to the data I've seen.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#84

Post by Shared404 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #79
cs702 wrote: post #11

For those accustomed to US/Imperial units, -25×9÷5+32=-13°F. Temperatures in Madrid dropped to -16°C (3°F). As others here have mentioned, these temperatures are unusually low for January in this region of Spain. They are the kinds of temperatures one would have seen in January during the "Little Ice Age" between the 15th and 19th centuries.[a][b][c] Let's hope this unusual drop in temperature is just a "one-off" rar…

Wouldn't a little ice age be great right about now? Then we can burn all the oil we want and be helping stay within our temperature bounds, not blowing through them.

Not an expert by any means, but...

The issue is that this is caused by the collapse of standard weather systems.

This isn't a sign of an ice age, it's the sign of instability.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#85

Post by cmrdporcupine »

otoburb wrote: post #9
cal5k wrote: post #2

Cold-blooded Canadian here, so forgive me for asking - is this highly unusual?

... and we wonder why so many Canadians move down south to California or Florida. Even cold-blooded reptiles like basking in the sun once in a while.

It's no colder in most of Canada (the most populated parts) than most of the midwest or the northeast. Average temperatures in the winter in Toronto are only slightly colder than NYC.

Yes, where I'm originally from in central Alberta, it gets cold as hell. But most of the population of Ontario (the most populous province) lives significantly south of the 49th parallel, on the same latitude as much of Oregon. Further south than Vermont, Maine, or New Hampshire, and due to weather patterns this side of the lake is actually a tad warmer on average than the south side in central NY.

TDLR: Most of Canada isn't as cold as the stereotypes. Lots of Americans live in colder areas.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#86

Post by arcturus17 »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #82
arcturus17 wrote: post #73

Madrid continues to be in utter disarray after this weekend's snowstorm, with most streets still covered in ice, many hardly penetrable even by foot. Supplies in some downtown supermarkets are low, with fresh produce completely out-of-stock. The fact that snowplows are nowhere to be seen and streets continue to be in such a poor state suggests to me that not only we are completely ill-equipped for this situation (whi…

This is completely abnormal weather for Madrid. It would be objectively stupid for them to have prepared well for arctic weather, given the average temperature in January is not even below 0 C and they get on average almost no snowfall in an average year.

That’s what I meant when I said it’s normal that we are ill-prepared for this situation.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#87

Post by Ma8ee »

cogman10 wrote: post #44
CodeGlitch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems pretty unusual. Compared to the UK [1] which is much further North. [1] https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2012/10/16/top-ten-coldest-rec...

Interestingly, even the UK doesn't get a lot of snow. That's because the gulf stream keeps it relatively warm for it's latitude. One of the major concerns of climate change is that may disrupt the gulf stream which would be disastrous for the UK. Their ecosystem depends heavily on the fact that water from the gulf of mexico keeps them unusually warm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream

Not only the UK, but the whole of Northern and Western Europe are kind of screwed without the Gulf Stream.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#88

Post by markdown »

tpmx wrote: post #55
tomalpha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline doesn’t come across as misleading to me. I interpreted it as the temperature having been recorded somewhere in central Spain which appears to be accurate (granted my Spanish geography isn’t great). The tone also appears to be consistent with what else is being reported - that this is unusual or possibly even extreme weather. I’m assuming your expectation was different. If so I’d be be curious as to how y…

Knowing the topography of Spain helps. My interpretation is that the very, very woke BBC staff picked what seems like extreme temps from a mountain region and then technically correctly wrote that "Central Spain" "records temperatures of -25C". That is all. Do note: I'm not a climate change denier. I just hate crap like this, with a passion. I don't think we should have to abandon facts in this particular fight. It s…

> technically correctly wrote that "Central Spain" "records temperatures of -25C". That is all.

They are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. You're mad that their reporting is factually correct?

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#89

Post by xeromal »

tpmx wrote: post #3

In the mountains, at about 3k feet or 1k meters elevation. Yes, the headline is quite misleading. I expect more from the BBC . From the article: > The temperature plunged to -25C (-13F) in Molina de Aragón and Teruel, in mountains east of Madrid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molina_de_Arag%C3%B3n > Elevation 1,065 m (3,494 ft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teruel > Elevation 915 m (3,002 ft)

Yeah, how its written is like it's -25 at massive population centers. Intentional vague.

Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm

#90

Post by tpmx »

markdown wrote: post #88
tpmx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing the topography of Spain helps. My interpretation is that the very, very woke BBC staff picked what seems like extreme temps from a mountain region and then technically correctly wrote that "Central Spain" "records temperatures of -25C". That is all. Do note: I'm not a climate change denier. I just hate crap like this, with a passion. I don't think we should have to abandon facts in this particular fight. It s…

> technically correctly wrote that "Central Spain" "records temperatures of -25C". That is all. They are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. You're mad that their reporting is factually correct?

You should go to reddit or something.
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