It's predicted that Europe will get colder due to climate change. "Europe will get cold toes" - NASA [0]
Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
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Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
It absolutely is an example of things to come - scenarios like this are caused by the weakened polar vortex that generally separates European weather from Arctic weather; the polar vortex has become weaker over the last years because of recent climate change / regional warming, and it is strongly expected to become even weaker in the coming decade(s), making weather like this more frequent.
Is this related to the polar vortex collapse discussed just the other day, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25713704
This isn't related to the polar vortex splitting, this is the polar vortex that has split. This is a part of the cold air mass that normally sits on the North Pole, but on top of Spain. Normally the cold arctic air spins around the north pole stably because it is cold and low pressure in the northern hemisphere winter. Warm air intruded into it, destabilized it, and it spun out into lower latitudes with corresponding intrusions of equally hot temperatures elsewhere (Tibetan plateau https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1348693028022738951/...)
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#73Madrid continues to be in utter disarray after this weekend's snowstorm, with most streets still covered in ice, many hardly penetrable even by foot. Supplies in some downtown supermarkets are low, with fresh produce completely out-of-stock.
The fact that snowplows are nowhere to be seen and streets continue to be in such a poor state suggests to me that not only we are completely ill-equipped for this situation (which is normal), but that the situation is overwhelming and the few resources we do have are spread thinly across the country.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#74This is killing temperature even for the hardiest palm. So I'm wondering how much of their mature trees and landscaping will be destroyed
-16C, as has been recorded in Madrid, is definitely lethal for olive trees.
I don't know about the temperatures in the all of Spain or where the main olive orchards are but that has the potential for being devastating for growers.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#75Cold-blooded Canadian here, so forgive me for asking - is this highly unusual?
I remember back in 1984 or so, we once had snow in Madrid in May. Younger people laugh at me as if I'm just making that up, but what has just happened is way more unusual.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#76In the mountains, at about 3k feet or 1k meters elevation. Yes, the headline is quite misleading. I expect more from the BBC . From the article: > The temperature plunged to -25C (-13F) in Molina de Aragón and Teruel, in mountains east of Madrid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molina_de_Arag%C3%B3n > Elevation 1,065 m (3,494 ft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teruel > Elevation 915 m (3,002 ft)
Mentioning elevation without any context or reference to historical temperatures is not very helpful. Consider updating your comment.
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Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#77A few days ago, someone posted a blog post here on HN [1] explaining the phenomenon which causes this: https://www.severe-weather.eu/global-weather/polar-vortex-co... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25713704
We are also entering a solar minimum, the last one was linked to a “little ice age” in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum I don’t know how climate change will affect this. But we might be in for an interesting few years.
No we just left a minimum, there’s been sunspots of opposite polarity appearing since early 2019 if memory serves - round about that timeframe anyway but the end of the minimum wasn’t confirmed until earlier in 2020.
It wasn’t a Maunder Minimum.
For the next 4 years or so we’ll proceed to maximum then back down to the next minimum thereafter.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#78Cold-blooded Canadian here, so forgive me for asking - is this highly unusual?
The Spanish people definitely dont have Canada quality heating or insulation. Compared to most of the world Canada is pretty much like living in the arctic. :) Even Americans dont want to live in the top half of the USA any more.
Lot's of Canada doesn't have "Canada quality" insulation, including my apartment but also a variety of houses I have lived in.
I grew up in the Okanagan, where temps range from -20°C to 40°C. Many houses there couldn't deal with either extreme well.
Even in Vancouver, -16 would freeze some pipes and kill some people. Not as bad as Madrid, but we are more accustomed to it here.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#79For those accustomed to US/Imperial units, -25×9÷5+32=-13°F. Temperatures in Madrid dropped to -16°C (3°F). As others here have mentioned, these temperatures are unusually low for January in this region of Spain. They are the kinds of temperatures one would have seen in January during the "Little Ice Age" between the 15th and 19th centuries.[a][b][c] Let's hope this unusual drop in temperature is just a "one-off" rar…
Wouldn't a little ice age be great right about now? Then we can burn all the oil we want and be helping stay within our temperature bounds, not blowing through them.
Re: Central Spain records temperatures of -25°C after snowstorm
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
The headline doesn’t come across as misleading to me. I interpreted it as the temperature having been recorded somewhere in central Spain which appears to be accurate (granted my Spanish geography isn’t great). The tone also appears to be consistent with what else is being reported - that this is unusual or possibly even extreme weather. I’m assuming your expectation was different. If so I’d be be curious as to how y…
Knowing the topography of Spain helps. My interpretation is that the very, very woke BBC staff picked what seems like extreme temps from a mountain region and then technically correctly wrote that "Central Spain" "records temperatures of -25C". That is all. Do note: I'm not a climate change denier. I just hate crap like this, with a passion. I don't think we should have to abandon facts in this particular fight. It s…
It’s the first time in 20 years those elevated areas have reached these temps.
The average low is around -3.5c for January.
You might be giving the BBC an overly hard time here. This does appear to be a significant (1 in 20 year) deviation.